Low Deflection Shaft

H

hungryjoseph

Registered
I have been playing the past few years with standard maple shafts at various diameters (12.25mm up to 13mm). I hadn't picked up a cue for a while and decided I wanted to play again. I figured I'd buy an LD shaft since I was most likely going to have to learn my stroke over again. I remembered playing with my friends' OB-1, OB classic, and Z2 shafts. I was impressed with the OB classic and its feel, really close to my maple shaft without the deflection. Z2 just felt like a sponge with a delay in the impulse. I didn't think getting used to the lower deflection was going to be difficult. I got my new cue in the mail with the OB classic pro and went back to the pool hall. For 4 days I've been playing like absolute crap. Granted, I was never that good before but running a rack of nine ball was a 1 in 4 occurrence for me. 8 ball it goes down to maybe 1 in 5. I picked up my old Joss cue and all the sudden I'm playing like I did a year ago. Kind of felt like I was going 'home' again... hard to describe.

Short story: the low deflection has been driving me nuts.

Has this happened to anyone else on here? Am I in the minority? Everyone I play with seem to love their LD shafts... I know it's only been four days but I absolutely hate playing with mine. Is it a mental thing? Do you guys think I should keep at it and try to learn it?

Both cues are running the same tip (Kamui Black med)
 
hungryjoseph said:
I have been playing the past few years with standard maple shafts at various diameters (12.25mm up to 13mm). I hadn't picked up a cue for a while and decided I wanted to play again. I figured I'd buy an LD shaft since I was most likely going to have to learn my stroke over again. I remembered playing with my friends' OB-1, OB classic, and Z2 shafts. I was impressed with the OB classic and its feel, really close to my maple shaft without the deflection. Z2 just felt like a sponge with a delay in the impulse. I didn't think getting used to the lower deflection was going to be difficult. I got my new cue in the mail with the OB classic pro and went back to the pool hall. For 4 days I've been playing like absolute crap. Granted, I was never that good before but running a rack of nine ball was a 1 in 4 occurrence for me. 8 ball it goes down to maybe 1 in 5. I picked up my old Joss cue and all the sudden I'm playing like I did a year ago. Kind of felt like I was going 'home' again... hard to describe.

Short story: the low deflection has been driving me nuts.

Has this happened to anyone else on here? Am I in the minority? Everyone I play with seem to love their LD shafts... I know it's only been four days but I absolutely hate playing with mine. Is it a mental thing? Do you guys think I should keep at it and try to learn it?

Both cues are running the same tip (Kamui Black med)
Click to expand...
Yes stick with it. Your relearning deflection, you've learned to compensate for it in the past now there barely is any. Play with it, nonstop, for 3 weeks. You'll love it.
 
hungryjoseph said:
Do you guys think I should keep at it and try to learn it?
Click to expand...

There are two schools of thought: YES and NO. :wink:

You own it, you might as well learn to use it. KBM is a great tip. The biggest adjustment may be the 11.75 mm tip. I would suggest playing for quite without side spin. Then move slowly off the vertical axis to adapt to the new shaft specs. Learning to play with a new shaft will not affect your ability to play with your old cue.

Have fun with it. Don't worry about your first session.
 
Stick with it. You won't regret it.

The best way to adjust is to start by going back to the center of the cue ball, and then bring in the side spin a little at a time.

I've had many do this and have it work for them very well.

First, just throw some balls out on the table and start shooting them in, but don't use any right or left, just low and high. It doesn't have to be in any order or grouping, you just want to shoot some cut shots. Do this for a good 10 or 15 minutes.

Next, now that your brain is accustomed to aiming for no squirt or deflection (it's that way because you've been only shooting up and down the center axis), start to use some side spin. Start with small amounts first and then move up to more off center.


Most find that the adjustment is pretty quick. Probably in part because they realize that they don't have to hit the cue ball so far off center to get where they need to go, but also because their brain is already lining them up more for center ball than for side spin. With the reduced squirt, a lot of the shots will go in. When you're brain sees the shot go in, it realizes it doesn't have to compensate so much and adjusts pretty quick. I've seen some need to do this a few times before they really see a change, but many others get there really quick and only have to do it once.

Just remember this. Anytime you change a cue or shaft, whether it be LD or regular or whatever, it will most likely be different than what you were playing with. That difference will require you're subconscious to change to the new equipment. Changing to LD is only different in the amount of adjustment, not the fact that you have to adjust. I see people who have trouble because they are trying to do something extra or special to adjust because it's LD. That extra something they are trying to do just messes things up. They would be better off just chalking it up and hitting balls. They will adjust to it just like the have adjusted to every cue they have ever picked up for the first time.


Shoot Well!
 
I played 15 years with my Joss and a standard shaft(13.25mm triangle tip).Before the crisis here i bought a 314 2nd generation predator.It take 2 months to get really used to it and imo its the best choise for the Joss
 
hungryjoseph said:
I have been playing the past few years with standard maple shafts at various diameters (12.25mm up to 13mm). I hadn't picked up a cue for a while and decided I wanted to play again. I figured I'd buy an LD shaft since I was most likely going to have to learn my stroke over again. I remembered playing with my friends' OB-1, OB classic, and Z2 shafts. I was impressed with the OB classic and its feel, really close to my maple shaft without the deflection. Z2 just felt like a sponge with a delay in the impulse. I didn't think getting used to the lower deflection was going to be difficult. I got my new cue in the mail with the OB classic pro and went back to the pool hall. For 4 days I've been playing like absolute crap. Granted, I was never that good before but running a rack of nine ball was a 1 in 4 occurrence for me. 8 ball it goes down to maybe 1 in 5. I picked up my old Joss cue and all the sudden I'm playing like I did a year ago. Kind of felt like I was going 'home' again... hard to describe.

Short story: the low deflection has been driving me nuts.

Has this happened to anyone else on here? Am I in the minority? Everyone I play with seem to love their LD shafts... I know it's only been four days but I absolutely hate playing with mine. Is it a mental thing? Do you guys think I should keep at it and try to learn it?

Both cues are running the same tip (Kamui Black med)
Click to expand...

See other similar post
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=340948
 
LD shafts

hungryjoseph said:
I have been playing the past few years with standard maple shafts at various diameters (12.25mm up to 13mm). I hadn't picked up a cue for a while and decided I wanted to play again. I figured I'd buy an LD shaft since I was most likely going to have to learn my stroke over again. I remembered playing with my friends' OB-1, OB classic, and Z2 shafts. I was impressed with the OB classic and its feel, really close to my maple shaft without the deflection. Z2 just felt like a sponge with a delay in the impulse. I didn't think getting used to the lower deflection was going to be difficult. I got my new cue in the mail with the OB classic pro and went back to the pool hall. For 4 days I've been playing like absolute crap. Granted, I was never that good before but running a rack of nine ball was a 1 in 4 occurrence for me. 8 ball it goes down to maybe 1 in 5. I picked up my old Joss cue and all the sudden I'm playing like I did a year ago. Kind of felt like I was going 'home' again... hard to describe.

Short story: the low deflection has been driving me nuts.

Has this happened to anyone else on here? Am I in the minority? Everyone I play with seem to love their LD shafts... I know it's only been four days but I absolutely hate playing with mine. Is it a mental thing? Do you guys think I should keep at it and try to learn it?

Both cues are running the same tip (Kamui Black med)
Click to expand...


YES................. But.
This a personal choice that you need to make for yourself.
It is not really fair to some of the Laminated LD shaft makers to be compared to each other.
I shot with a laminated LD shaft for about a year solid.
I switched back to solid maple.

This your choice, I understand you are asking for advise but you don't need advise from the LD shaft haters like me.

The only tip that worked for me was a Moori soft, I played a lot of pool then and I was going thru a tip every 5 weeks.

It given the choice, of a bar cue or the LD shaft I shot with, I choose the bar cue.
Once again not all LD shafts and Laminated LD shafts are equal but the same goes for solid maple shafts too.

Fact is You are just going to have to figure this out for yourself ( grass hopper )

MMike
 
A lot of solid advice here. Thanks for taking the time to post.

The thought never occurred to me to just shoot without side spin for a while. I have been so used to putting english on the ball on almost every shot that I feel like I almost forgot how to shoot straight. I don't know how to explain it, but it's like when you get down on a shot you just know where to hit the ball to get the object ball to go in and cue ball to work its way to the area you want it to. It took me 3 months of playing 4 hours a day in Korea to get to that point. The LD shaft threw me off because unless I turned my brain back on the cue ball would fly miles away from my intended target.

I'm going to spend a couple months with it and start over again with learning how to shoot straight with top/bottom. Per the advice given here, I will work my way further out on the cue ball.

On that other thread naji directed me towards, it seems that the consensus is LD shafts do not allow a player to increase their capabilities, it's more perception than anything. Do you guys agree?

Also, another quip about this shaft is the conical taper, I didn't think it would bother me because I was used to playing with these tapers in Korea when I was playing 3 cushion and sa-gu (4 ball). Alas, it is bothering me. Especially because of how it feels in my closed bridge. Makes me wish I went with the OB classic instead of the pro (or maybe just a stock maple shaft... ha..ha..). I do like the small tip though. Would it be a bad idea to get the taper changed on the shaft to a typical pro taper?
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
YES.................

The only tip that worked for me was a Moori soft, I played a lot of pool then and I was going thru a tip every 5 weeks.



MMike
Click to expand...

Holy cow, Mike. I just ordered a new sneaky with a Moori soft. What sort of service did it provide seeing as you had to replace it so frequently?
 
I absolutely hated them {LD shafts} until I got two cue maker designed shafts that were NOT laminated. It's more about taper and ferrule length and material than lamination. My shafts have pros and cons. Pro, I seem to pocket better, Con, I seem to have more cue ball movement than with standard shafts.
Predator shafts always seemed to me to be on the point of shattering when I hit the cue ball. A Tiger felt like playing with a telephone pole, no feel at all.
I think Mortuary Mike knows what I'm talking about:D
They do take getting used to, I tried the predator for three or four months playing every day and wanted to burn it.
 
Last edited:
Crawlers said:
Yes stick with it. Your relearning deflection, you've learned to compensate for it in the past now there barely is any. Play with it, nonstop, for 3 weeks. You'll love it.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone want to relearn something they already know how to control?

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
Yes, I agree.

Roger
Click to expand...

Well this is your problem here.
Why relearn something, you ask.
Because of the potential your new skill will bring.

It's not a gimmick, Ld shafts are proven to reduce deflection. The advantages to this are immense.

Also if you are a stubborn ld hater, unwilling to relearn, don't offer your opinion, for you are ignorant on the subject.
 
Crawlers said:
Well this is your problem here.
Why relearn something, you ask.
Because of the potential your new skill will bring.

It's not a gimmick, Ld shafts are proven to reduce deflection. The advantages to this are immense.

Also if you are a stubborn ld hater, unwilling to relearn, don't offer your opinion, for you are ignorant on the subject.
Click to expand...

They just plain don't work for everybody. Just like different aiming methods don't work for everybody. If they did, everyone would use them. Not even all the pros use them. Get off your soap box. I'm not ignorant and neither is Roger.
 
Crawlers said:
Well this is your problem here.
Why relearn something, you ask.
Because of the potential your new skill will bring.

It's not a gimmick, Ld shafts are proven to reduce deflection. The advantages to this are immense.

Also if you are a stubborn ld hater, unwilling to relearn, don't offer your opinion, for you are ignorant on the subject.
Click to expand...

If you can't accept the fact that someone else is entitled to an opinion that differs from your own; then you are the ignorant one here.

I will agree that LD shafts have been proven to reduce deflection to an appreciable amount when the cue ball is struck in the wrong spot at the wrong speed; but when struck properly, cue ball deflection is not the big factor that it has been made out to be.

Roger
 
Ignorant. Not stupid. I mean no disrespect.
I do believe you are wrong though.
With non low deflection shafts you have to compensate for certain shots. This decreases your accuracies consistency . It simply does.
 
1 in 4 Runs in 9 Ball

You stated that you were not very good but before the shaft change you could run 1 in 4 racks of 9 Ball...that is 25%. The top pro's in tournament play average about 20%...why would you change shafts if you we're playing at a better than Pro calibre ?

Wedge
 
Crawlers said:
Ignorant. Not stupid. I mean no disrespect.
I do believe you are wrong though.
With non low deflection shafts you have to compensate for certain shots. This decreases your accuracies consistency . It simply does.
Click to expand...

I was told you had to learn to compensate when using ld shafts. But, like Roger, I don't notice a whole lot of difference. I stand by my above comment, they aren't for everyone.
 
LD shaft

I bought a Jacoby Edge LD shaft from Joe Vilallapando at the Jacoby table at the DCC last January. I'm just an average player and thought the LD shafts were for very good players only. Boy, was I ever wrong! The Jacoby shaft has a 12.75mm tip whereas my original McDermott shaft was 13mm. I absolutely love the Jacoby shaft and would recommend it to anyone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top