Low Deflection Shafts - What's Your Opinion???

I am one of those old school cuemakers who thinks tight grain maple has the over all best feel for playing pool and the cue ball action can be increased or decreased for a player by the right tip/ferrule combo. But the down side is that most cuemakers cannot use only tight grain maple or they would have to get rid of a huge percentage of their maple for other purposes besides shafts, as only a small percentage will have over 15 grain lines per inch. So the pie shaped laminates came along trying to get the same hit all the time that mother nature produces at its best in tight grain maple. The problem that was found is they were a little stiffer than natural tight grain maple, so they hollowed out the end of the shaft a little to make them play a little less stiff. They have managed to produce shafts that play fairly consistent and that is important. So I think as a whole laminated LD shafts are a good thing. But I still think natural tight grain maple grown in the right locations is the way to go when possible.

That is my take on it and I hope it is not offensive to anyone as it was not intended to be.

Refreshing I'd say.

This is a classic example of what gives a player confidence. It isn't about the ld or hd thing. Its about learning your cue.

"What cue should I own?"...a cue for a serious player Must have three critical points. 1. It must have a good tip. 2. It must be straight. And number three almost the sum of one and two, it must allow the user to believe and have confidence in it.

The rest will be learned. As any cue does. I would say if I bought the same ld shaft and replaced what I have. The new shaft would behave different. But it wouldn't matter because I'd put in the time w it and learn its characteristics.

If the feel of a solid maple shaft is what you prefer that's cool, ld laminate same thing. Your game will adjust.

Players prefer a wood built cue. But what could be attained w synthetic materials? Way more consistency. But players still use wood, why? Because they adjust to their stick, they learn it and win!

Don't buy the hype. Use a cue that you like to hit with.
 
what about

ferrule-less maple shafts that have started showing up? where do they fall in the LD spectrum?
 
None of this makes any sense.

I think for any off center hit the CB is gonna squirt commensurate with how far off center the hit is and the characteristics of that shaft.......stiffness, endmass, etc. The CB doesn't know that is was hit by a good stroke or a bad stroke, only just where it was hit and at what speed/angle. You can put a perfect stroke on a shot and still miss it due to improper alignment or errors in adjusting for squirt/swerve.

I have no idea what the second sentence has to do with the first......"why it's essential"?? Maybe it was just some more copy 'n paste phases stuck together. Anyway, the only way you can hit with the upper edge of the tip is with an elevated cue (butt) and a very low hit. Anything above the equator of the CB, it's impossible without being jacked-up. What this has anything to do with deflection, I don't know. Can we even hit the CB with the edge of the cue's tip?

What is the "smaller area of the tip"??
Another CJ Wiley hit-and-run cut-and-paste spam job. It doesn't have to make sense - getting his name and link posted is the only purpose.

pj
chgo
 
!

Either one It doesn't matter. Learn the shaft you play with and you'll be golden.... Now if you asked which one "hits" better, then I'd say normal old growth hard rock maple...

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!

Ken
 
ferrule-less maple shafts that have started showing up? where do they fall in the LD spectrum?

They seem to address a

- soft(er) hit
- even less squirt (deflection) than regular LS (LD) shafts

than ones with a ferrule. Remember, a ferrule actually has a quite concentrated high mass - when compared to the wood.
That's why they shrink them to 1/4 or something and have smaller tip sizes (11,75cm).

Cheers.
 
Old growth

What is considered an old growth shaft? I have a couple of original D series McDermott shafts from the early to mid 80s, are these considered old growth? I am assuming these were from trees harvested in the 70s.

From a maple tree that was 300 to 400 years old .
 
Why don't you come to Canton, Ohio at Fiddlesticks and show me. Show me how technically superior you are. Bring a wallet if you are a betting man and please show us what you are made out of. I want to see it. I'll help pay your way. Just PM me and we can set it up or just put it on here publicly. I don't give a damn either way. No worries. Plenty of people to play with various games to play including me. I haven't played more than 5 times in 6 months due to classes and work, but I'll gladly play you to see how amazing your knowledge is.

I'd drive down from Lansing to see that lol.
 
A shafts natural pivot point for deflection compensation is an important consideration with regards to a players bridge length if they desire to use back hand english. Having a pivot point matched to the preferred bridge length will yield the best results, this could be a standard or an LD shaft. This also applies when not using side intentionally but by unintentionally putting side (or more/less side then intended) due to stroke inaccuracies.

Very nice explanation for your shaft preference. I highlighted the part of your summary that supports my choice of playing shafts.

Shafts are shafts. I don’t hate any of them. I make my own decisions based on my personal experience. I play entirely by feel and have not found benefit out of aiming systems (no complaints about aiming systems). I have always loved the feel of stiff, heavier (4-4.5 oz.), thicker (13.0-13.25 mm) traditional shafts with hard tips. I own an LD shaft (314-2) which feels fine to me. It requires a rack or two to adjust my feel for it, but that is true for any shaft change. However, it does not have the magic feel that my favorite traditional shafts have. Since all shafts that I play with need some level of personal adjustment and all of them deflect to some extent, less squirt doesn’t mean much to me. What matters is finding the natural pivot point for each shaft. Since I don’t play by formula, my final striking stroke for each shot changes slightly based on how I feel the shot. Any change to my warm-up alignment has the same effect on the cue ball as intentionally using BHE. Since I use traditional shafts, I keep my shaft about 12” from the cue ball. Last instant changes to the point of cue ball contact are compensated by bridging at the pivot point.

So, how ever did great players pocket balls before LD shafts were invented? I noticed recently at a broadcasted tournament that all of the players were bridging at about half the length of the shaft (the pivot point for an LD shaft). After noticing that, I did a quick review of YouTube videos of older matches (ca. 1990, before LD) with players who still play occasionally, and they were all bridging about 12” from the cue ball. While this quick survey doesn’t prove anything, I feel justified that it matters more that I learn to use how to best use each shaft than it does which shaft I choose to play with.
 
How are the woods more consistent ?
The plies are not from the same board on all of them .

I'm talking about production LD shafts vs. most any standard shaft.

*MOST* standard shafts are made from a solid piece of wood, which means a much higher chance of grain variance. Production LD shafts such as predator, OB, etc. are made from several radial segments of wood, providing much more consistency throughout the shaft. A quick google search should provide you with more details.
 
How are the woods more consistent ?
The plies are not from the same board on all of them.
I think that's kinda the point of lamination - there's less variance over lots of shafts when the shaft wood is an "average" of different woods (and different grain orientations) laminated together.

pj
chgo
 
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