Low deflection shafts

donny mills

donny mills

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm trying to learn all about low deflection shafts. What can you do with one that you can't do with a regular shaft, and vice versa?

If you've played with a regular shaft your whole life is it a good idea to switch now?

Which top pros don't shoot with a low deflection shaft?

If I got used to a low def shaft, would I definitely be a better player?


I shot a couple inside english shots with a low def shaft and noticed how much easier it is to judge.
 
I bought an OB-1 after playing with a regular shaft for many years and it took about an hour to get used to it. With a medium tip, the main difference was using inside spin at a medium stroke. I found I didn't need to compensate as much. Extreme hard or soft inside english got just a little better, too.

Best,
Mike
 
I think it really depends on you Donnie. Many natural type players will have a tougher time than say someone who as learned to play at a more conscious level as I think you have.

I think you may lose a little "feel" especially if you really like and I'm sure you do, the way your current cues feels when it hits the ball.
And then there's how low do you go? I got to be a no squirt junky to the point where swerve was now a concern lol. Currently reversing that.

Take the plunge guy, practice a week or 2 with one and then play a somewhat serious match or tournament to help get by the trust issue.
OR you can bring TWO cues to the table and just use the low D for inside english shots and then we can call you Donnie 2 cues :)
 
This website has been the only good one i can find with an unbiased testing method.

It's on Meucci's website, so you know they're trying to promote the black dot shaft here... But it's pretty interesting and worth a look. The intro will explain how it's all set up and the english he is putting on the cue ball, causing the ob to deflect when hitting the ob head on.

http://www.meuccicues.com/BlackDot.htm

They show demos of other manufacturers stock shafts against a Meucci black dot shaft. I wish they would test a OB or OB2 or OB Classic in here!! Lol.... They would knock Meucci's black dot out of the water!

This is my favorite, because i had a lucasi stock shaft before upgrading to a OB2.

http://www.meuccicues.com/video/Meucci Black Dot - Lucasi - 2006.wmv
 
RDaniel13 said:
This website has been the only good one i can find with an unbiased testing method.
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Meucci? Unbiased? :confused:

Do you realize that this is the same Meuccii that was marketing the following statements in the 90's?

"Meucci builds shafts and butts that are more flexible causing less cue ball deflection and increased amplification of stroke while diminishing warpage. Meucci's are the only cues balanced far enough back for automatic grip positioning every time"

"Secondly, the new Red Dot shaft guarantees you perfect positioning for consistent and predictable results when shooting with high, low, left or right english or any combination thereof."

"In fact, we have so reduced effective cue ball deflection, that we can now boldly guarantee that your new Meucci Red Dot Shaft will reduce effective deflection by an average of at least 7% over the best of any competitor’s brand or your money back!"

Yeah, Meuccii's "proprietary Myth Destroyer" robot proved it then too. Meuccii is a marketing machine, not a good site for unbiased testing methods.
 
Just buying one will not necessarily make you a better player, although it can help you improve your game. I think most serious players use an LD shaft in one form or the other.
When a cue ball is struck with a low deflection shaft said cue ball tends to move away, or squirt, from it's intended line less than that of a so-called standard shaft. I suggest you read the work done by Dr. Dave, and Bob Meucci. They have provided a wealth of information on this subject.
And learn One Pocket. You'll thank me later. :)
 
Donny, heres my take on it.
I played with a regular shaft for years and then switched to LD, after some adjustment I found that they are much more predictable using english and my game became more consistant. The hollow shafts I found lacked feel so I opted to play with a solid shaft with an 11.75mm tip and short light ferrule, this reduces the deflection to a managable level for me but I have the feel back.
Hope this helps.
 
donny mills said:
I'm trying to learn all about low deflection shafts. What can you do with one that you can't do with a regular shaft, and vice versa?

If you've played with a regular shaft your whole life is it a good idea to switch now?

Which top pros don't shoot with a low deflection shaft?

If I got used to a low def shaft, would I definitely be a better player?


I shot a couple inside english shots with a low def shaft and noticed how much easier it is to judge.
Click to expand...

With an LD shaft, you can talk to others that have LD shafts about your LD shaft.

Actually, I first found it much easier to put english on a ball without going as far from center. You may experience unwanted english at first, but a player of your caliber probably doesn't have that problem as much as I do. Give it a try.. borrow a friend's for a few days and see what you think. I'd bet you stick with it.
 
Slasher said:
Donny, heres my take on it.
I played with a regular shaft for years and then switched to LD, after some adjustment I found that they are much more predictable using english and my game became more consistant. The hollow shafts I found lacked feel so I opted to play with a solid shaft with an 11.75mm tip and short light ferrule, this reduces the deflection to a managable level for me but I have the feel back.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

solid advice here. while LD shafts have their following, they are not the be and end all to becoming a better player like many people may say. i switch back and forth between cues constantly, and it doesn't take me much time to adapt to any cue LD or not.
 
Know this also.......billiards and snooker are both played with LD style cues

a snooker cue is just as low deflection or lower than anything on the LD aftermarket.........Billiards is basically the same as the typical tip is <13mm and usually around 12mm with a conical taper, the billiards cues may not be super LD but they are more so than normal shafts.

That all said I don't really care for aftermarket LD shafts as they all feel hollow or dead whatever you want to call it. I have shot with a solid maple LD shaft for a long time and love the thing for all games, one hole, 9 , 8, 10, bank pool etc etc........

cues were lower deflection in nature at one time, they switched to protapers long ago, then they came out with the LD marketing and then they are pumping the Fat stuff now...........

the lower the deflection the straighter the gun shoots.........all you got to ask yourself is "do i prefer my bullet to travel a more curved trajectory or do i want my bullet to travel in a straight trajectory (with english application)"

hope that helps you answer any questions.

-Grey GHost-
 
greyghost:
all you got to ask yourself is "do i prefer my bullet to travel a more curved trajectory or do i want my bullet to travel in a straight trajectory
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LD doesn't reduce the curve in sidespin shots - it reduces the squirt. The CB won't take a "straighter" path, just an equally curved one that's closer to where the stick points.

But I give you credit for coming up with a new false claim for LD shafts - usually it's just the same old wrong stuff: too sensitive to spin, harder to masse, no squirt, etc.

pj
chgo
 
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donny mills said:
I'm trying to learn all about low deflection shafts. What can you do with one that you can't do with a regular shaft, and vice versa?
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Nothing. EDIT: Except maybe jumping - I find that harder with a LD shaft, but maybe that's me.

If you've played with a regular shaft your whole life is it a good idea to switch now?
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Don't know. I think that's a personal choice.

Which top pros don't shoot with a low deflection shaft?
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Many don't. Many do. I think the trend is to switch to LD.

If I got used to a low def shaft, would I definitely be a better player?
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I think you'd definitely be a little more accurate and consistent, just because that's easier when you can aim closer to your target.

Think of it this way: because of squirt (CB deflection) you have to estimate the size of your aiming correction (either consciously or unconsciously) to within, say, 1/16 inch for many shots (more or less for other shots). Would you rather estimate a 1-inch correction or a 1/2-inch correction to that accuracy?

I shot a couple inside english shots with a low def shaft and noticed how much easier it is to judge.
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Works equally on outside english.

pj
chgo
 
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I played with a stock shaft for 15 years then switched to a Predator Z2. Also tried the 314-2 and can shoot equally well with that. It helped that I was coming back to the game after a 5 year layoff and had to basically recalibrate things anyway, but the switch didn't take that long to get used to.

The various LD shafts reduce (not eliminate) deflection, that's it. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference in playability - amount of spin generated, ability to jump or masse the ball, etc., although because of the reduction of mass in the tip some of those specialty shots might react a little differently. There is typically a slightly different feel, since again typically the ferrule area is hollowed out, filled with foam, etc., but I got used to that pretty quickly and only noticed the difference when my tip came off and I had to switch back to my old Schon shaft.

As far as making the switch - try one for a while, over several sessions if you can. Try different types of spin shots from different distances and with various speeds. You should find that there will be some shots that you can shoot at or very close to "normal" aim but for others you will still have to adjust, although less than with a regular shaft. It will not automatically make you a better player, although depending on your current abilities using and adjusting for english you may see improvement in that area. Now if I could only find a shaft that reduces deflection and always shoots straight... :)

Scott
 
Patrick Johnson said:
LD doesn't reduce the curve in sidespin shots - it reduces the squirt. The CB won't take a "straighter" path, just an equally curved one that's closer to where the stick points.

But I give you credit for coming up with a new false claim for LD shafts - usually it's just the same old wrong stuff: too sensitive to spin, harder to masse, no squirt, etc.

pj
chgo
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you are correct PJ, I could have phrased that much better as yes thats all it is......in the normal the shaft the squirt is greater so that the spin cant match it to bring it back to the original line.

so in effect it does send it in a straighter line my friend, just not dead straight (of course thats not possible) as like a bullet always has some sort of arc in its travel as well, but that path can be more or less curved depending on the velocity of the bullet, in our case its just the cuestick making that action on the CB/bullet.

as for masse'.......it masse's fine.........you just have to re-learn as it doesn't aim the same.

same thing for jumping.........i jump just fine with mine i made 3 last night at WD while matched up for 200. as the only time i ever use a jump cue is if its way too close or close and full ball, all others are with my playing cue.

spin is good as well, it could get a softer touchier spin if i chose to put on a softer tip and softer ferrule if i chose (charlie bryant does this softer ferrule and elkmaster). So far i like the springer stiffer hit that i have with the harder ferrule and triangle tip.

colorful,
-Grey Ghost-
 
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All i know allot of pro tourneys have been won by predator cues! I really like the older series cues 96,98 and 99 and the 5/16-14 joint they were tops! Another note predators are hard to beat than a standard shaft for cut shots and inside english!:thumbup:
 
bdcues said:
If you think Meucci's videos are unbiased... I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Click to expand...


When i said unbiased i was referring to them using a machine to provided a consistent method of testing. I stated later in the OP that they were for sure trying to promote their black dot shaft. I would love to see them try this with a OB2 or OB Classic.
 
Pros:

Less deflection

More consistant from shaft to shaft. Less adjustment to change to B/U shaft.

Cons:

Very hard to jump a ball with a LD shaft. (I can't do it)
 
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