Low deflection shafts
- Thread starter AK-Stick
- Start date
wet
Ur awl wet.
Ur awl wet.
Larry Fine
Banned
Thats what I want to know, I only spent $200 for my viking, now I have to spend 300 for a shaft, why, is this all marketing hype, or is it for real?
Low squirt (i.e., low cue ball deflection) cues have both advantages and disadvantages, as listed and described here:
Regards,
Dave
Premium Maple shafts
I have a player made by an AZ'er, Tony Sauer. He picked some really nice shafts for this cue. I recently traded for a Tiger Ultra-X shaft in new condition. I have played countless games with the Tiger, but I don't see enough improvement over the stock shafts to use the Tiger in competition. I probably won't buy another aftermarket shaft for my current cue. Maybe I got lucky, but if you play well with what you got, go with it.
I have a player made by an AZ'er, Tony Sauer. He picked some really nice shafts for this cue. I recently traded for a Tiger Ultra-X shaft in new condition. I have played countless games with the Tiger, but I don't see enough improvement over the stock shafts to use the Tiger in competition. I probably won't buy another aftermarket shaft for my current cue. Maybe I got lucky, but if you play well with what you got, go with it.
They are nothing but personal preference in my opinion. Now I will admit that some can play better with one than most play without one, such as, many of Pro's who use them. But, not everyone will find improvement by using one it all depends upon your ability to learn how to use it.
Many people do understand that there is a big learning curve when switching from a non-laminated to a laminated shaft. While it appears very easy for the Pro-players their ability and knowledge of the game actually makes using one of these shafts much easier. In my opinion if you start using one of these shafts when you first start playing pool then it will not effect your ability long term one way or the other.
In my opinion a standard shaft can be as good as a laminated shaft it all depends on the player and what they learned to play with. Laminated shafts like all other items pool related will not make you automatically play better, only time and practice can do that.
JIMO
Once you get to a certain level you can definitely tell a difference. You have to be skilled and have your cue dialed in before you can tell adifference in the first place. Not saying that the difference is better, A lot of people dont like the difference. I myself have tried everything but an OB-1 and to me the Tiger shafts are nothing compared to a 314. I am addicted to a 314.
TheThaiger
Banned
Still cannot for the life of me see the point of a high deflecting shaft. Why make a difficult game harder?
Now, a shaft maker that makes a LD shaft that doesn't swerve with unintentional english is REALLY going to get my attention.
Now, a shaft maker that makes a LD shaft that doesn't swerve with unintentional english is REALLY going to get my attention.
One of the issues in this discussion of LD shafts, is that many people think of LD shafts as being purchased separately from someone other than the original cue maker (e.g. Predator, OB, Tiger etc.). There are many cue makers that make shafts that are fairly low deflection and made from solid well seasoned maple. It's a matter of preference. Just because the shafts aren't marketed as LD doesn't mean they are necessarily super high deflection shafts.
Of course it's just my opinion, like anyone else. IF I"m going to spend $1,000 on a cue, i'm not going to throw away the shafts that came with it and buy an aftermarket product though some do and it suits them.
I played some of my best pool with an old Meucci SP, played for several years with Schons, and jumped from Heubler to Scruggs to Judd, with everything from 11.25 to 13 mm shafts. Each time I changed, I had to spend a month or so getting adjusted to the new situation. I don't like the price tag on Predator and OB shafts, but I am going to try one in the near future. If I don't like it after I adjust to it, no big deal. I won't have wasted much time.
I do not expect to see much, if any, improvement in my game. I've said many times that I think pocketing balls is the easiest part of the game, and there's nothing you can buy that is going to eliminate misses from your game. But I do think there is another level of equipment consistency that I'm not experiencing with a traditional shaft, and that's why I'm going to try a Predator shaft.
On many occasions I've had people hand me their cues and say "here, try this". When they had a smirk on their face, or immediately turned around and snickered, I knew they were handing me an LD something or other, assuming I wouldn't be able to make a ball with it. To their surprise (and mine too at first), within a few minutes I was pocketing most of my shots again, and there was no magical feeling to any of them. It was just another adjustment, whether it was an 11.5mm Schon shaft or an OB.
I just don't think "easier" and "harder" are valid terms when describing the difference between HD and LD shafts. There is an adjustment to be made regardless, and nailing down the precise amount of that adjustment for each individual shot takes a lot of time and practice no matter what shaft you are using. The more experienced you are, the faster you will adjust to changes, IMO.
Aaron
I do not expect to see much, if any, improvement in my game. I've said many times that I think pocketing balls is the easiest part of the game, and there's nothing you can buy that is going to eliminate misses from your game. But I do think there is another level of equipment consistency that I'm not experiencing with a traditional shaft, and that's why I'm going to try a Predator shaft.
On many occasions I've had people hand me their cues and say "here, try this". When they had a smirk on their face, or immediately turned around and snickered, I knew they were handing me an LD something or other, assuming I wouldn't be able to make a ball with it. To their surprise (and mine too at first), within a few minutes I was pocketing most of my shots again, and there was no magical feeling to any of them. It was just another adjustment, whether it was an 11.5mm Schon shaft or an OB.
I just don't think "easier" and "harder" are valid terms when describing the difference between HD and LD shafts. There is an adjustment to be made regardless, and nailing down the precise amount of that adjustment for each individual shot takes a lot of time and practice no matter what shaft you are using. The more experienced you are, the faster you will adjust to changes, IMO.
Aaron
How would unintentional english be the shaft's fault? The only english applied to the cueball is from your stroke and where you hit the cueball.
I think I know what you mean though... and I have one for sale. For the low low price of $190 you can have it
I started this thread but no one wanted to respond.
But this is my take on LD shafts.
http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=230464
And here is the chart from Platinum billiards site (that I believe has been removed)
Courtesy of dr. dave
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#data
But this is my take on LD shafts.
http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=230464
And here is the chart from Platinum billiards site (that I believe has been removed)
Courtesy of dr. dave
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#data
I play with a Predator Z2 shaft. The main difference I would say is that for shots requiring english I can hit closer to center ball. Other than that just like adjusting to having to compensate for squirt you will have to get used to not comepensating for squirt with an LD shaft. That learning curve is a little easier though IMO.
TheThaiger
Banned
Your squirt link doesn't work - I'd be interested in seeing that again if anyone has it?
It seems to be working for me, is anyone else having trouble trying to connect?
i agree, there is an adjustment... but if you are a marksman (to take a similar sport), and want to hit a target 100 yards away, do you think youd be more accurate when you had to aim 10 inches away from your target because of a crosswind, or on another day, 5 inches away from you target as the crosswind was less. it will always be easier to hit the target on that day when the crosswind is less because you are having to compensate less for a variable. and now start imagining if they moved the target to 80 yards, 120 yards etc..... the less you have to compensate (ld shaft), the more accurate you will be judging om all these various shots.
Beat me to it, but that was the same comparison I was going to make. Yes, going to LD shafts is an adjustment, but eventually, once you practice with it and get used to it, there is no reason not to use it. At first, you will shoot way off with an LD shaft on shots that you are using any decent amount of english. The point is, once you get used to the LD shaft by practicing and using drills, etc... there is no reason to not use one. Why would you ever want to use a shaft that has a deflection of 8x%amount when you could use a shaft with 2x%amount? Obviously, the numbers don't actually matter, but why would you want MORE variance that you have to figure out and compensate for in your shot?
Once again, for those of you who are so used to non LD shafts ... why would you want MORE variance that you have to figure out and compensate for in your shot?
Wouldn't you want to be off by 3% and MAKE the shot because the variance is so much lower than be off by 3% and MISS the shot because your non LD shaft moved the cue ball that much more? IMO, this is the advantage of LD shafts.
If you knew that you were always and forever going to have a 5mph wind from the same direction to compensate for, you would just adjust your sights to allow for it, and this is what most people do in pool. Most of us have no idea how much we are having to compensate for deflection from shot to shot. This was the case for me for years. I was playing A++ pool, but was completely oblivious to the fact that my cue wasn't pointing down the line of the shot, and wasn't really aiming anywhere near where my eyes were aiming. The compensation for deflection was built into my setup and stroke, which just happened naturally for myself and every other good player I have spoken to about this. I now know how much deflection I experience on certain shots, but I have never given a conscious thought to it when lining up a shot.
The only adjustments I have ever been able to see visually are the ones I make for swerve and throw. Never once have I thought "ok, i'm using two tips of left, so I need to aim 4" to the left of my intended contact point to compensate for deflection". I guess someone who uses parallel english would have to do that sort of stuff... not sure who else - certain aiming system users perhaps? Most people become familiar, make their adjustments (set their sights, if you like), and never look back until they change cues. The target is the same size for everybody, so once your sights are set it is exactly as easy/hard for you as it is for everyone else.
Aaron