low deflection shafts
- Thread starter mohrt
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Low deflection shafts do not make enough difference to justify their high costs. This is especially true for amateur players since they are not making their living playing pool which makes it unnecessary for them to look for minute improvements such as those that low deflection shafts might provide.
Besides, the thing that makes the biggest difference in the amount of cue ball deflection any player experiences, is the exact spot that the tip contacts. When contacting the cue ball in the correct spot, there is practically no difference in performance between a standard shaft and a low deflection shaft.
I admit that the above is strictly my opinion, but it has been based on results obtained through my own personal testing of low deflection shafts versus standard shafts. I do not have the benefit of a robot and a super slow motion camera, so proving the accuracy of my opinion would be impossible at this time.
Roger
Besides, the thing that makes the biggest difference in the amount of cue ball deflection any player experiences, is the exact spot that the tip contacts. When contacting the cue ball in the correct spot, there is practically no difference in performance between a standard shaft and a low deflection shaft.
I admit that the above is strictly my opinion, but it has been based on results obtained through my own personal testing of low deflection shafts versus standard shafts. I do not have the benefit of a robot and a super slow motion camera, so proving the accuracy of my opinion would be impossible at this time.
Roger
Thanks Roger. I have heard different things such as LD shafts permit players to "do things otherwise are difficult or impossible to do" with the CB. For instance, drawing the CB to shape with much greater ease. Not sure what to think of it. I've used both, and I have pretty good luck with a standard shaft.
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I'll put it this way...
I've played for the past 5 years with a whippy straight grain maple shaft; A friend of mine wanted me to take his Predator Z2 shaft for a spin. I set up cut, kick, and bank shots varying from 1.5 feet to 8 feet. Shorter distance shots were makeable, but anything past 4 to 6 feet and I couldn't judge where the cue ball would contact. You will basically have to reteach yourself how to shoot. Some people learn quicker than others, though. I've tried an OB-1, Z2, and 314-2. I didn't like any of them. They are low deflection, but they will not improve your game.
Saying you can make shots with an LD shaft, that you cannot make with a standard shaft, is complete bull.
I've played for the past 5 years with a whippy straight grain maple shaft; A friend of mine wanted me to take his Predator Z2 shaft for a spin. I set up cut, kick, and bank shots varying from 1.5 feet to 8 feet. Shorter distance shots were makeable, but anything past 4 to 6 feet and I couldn't judge where the cue ball would contact. You will basically have to reteach yourself how to shoot. Some people learn quicker than others, though. I've tried an OB-1, Z2, and 314-2. I didn't like any of them. They are low deflection, but they will not improve your game.
Saying you can make shots with an LD shaft, that you cannot make with a standard shaft, is complete bull.
I hear what you are saying. I don't think its a matter of "can't do" but more of a matter of "easier to do". The theory is that if your shaft deflects less, then more energy is transferred to the CB given the same effort.
It's not easier to do. If I have to reteach myself to make a ball, then it is more difficult. Now, if I decided to reteach myself, the theory may hold true. However, as Roger, mentioned it is difficult to perceive if "more energy is transferred to the CB given the same effort."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QazDf_xFMUo
That shot, in the video, is no easier with a low deflection shaft.
It seems that the new pool players are looking for the magic to make them better. Much like golf, there are many entrepreneurs that are willing to make shafts, chalk, and tips and spout scientific evidence on how these things will make your game better.
No one has ever quickly reached a high level of ability from purchasing any of these items..... only practice and self motivation will get you there..... you do need good equipment but not necessarily expensive equipment.
One of the most false theorys is that you need a small diameter tip and low deflection........
I have made some special hard maple shafts for 2 local players. One shaft is 13.3mm and the other is 13.4mm. Be assured that both of these players can get full table draw and exotic english using these shafts. It is ALL in your stroke ....not in the small diameter tip...
With a large diameter tip, the sweet spot is bigger on the cue ball.... with a small diameter tip you must be much more accurate to the point at which you strike the cue ball............
I am not saying that you can't play well with a small diameter tip... it is a learned skill like any other. The small diameter tip does not give you an advantage.... it only makes you learn how to use it..............It's not better, just different...
Kim
No one has ever quickly reached a high level of ability from purchasing any of these items..... only practice and self motivation will get you there..... you do need good equipment but not necessarily expensive equipment.
One of the most false theorys is that you need a small diameter tip and low deflection........
I have made some special hard maple shafts for 2 local players. One shaft is 13.3mm and the other is 13.4mm. Be assured that both of these players can get full table draw and exotic english using these shafts. It is ALL in your stroke ....not in the small diameter tip...
With a large diameter tip, the sweet spot is bigger on the cue ball.... with a small diameter tip you must be much more accurate to the point at which you strike the cue ball............
I am not saying that you can't play well with a small diameter tip... it is a learned skill like any other. The small diameter tip does not give you an advantage.... it only makes you learn how to use it..............It's not better, just different...
Kim
You'll get different answers and it all depends on preference. I started out with standard maple shafts years ago, have tried many brands of LD shafts but always came back to the standard shaft.
I no longer search for the magic cue as it's just not out there. Every shaft I've tried has some deflection, the player has to adjust whether it's a little or a lot, makes no difference.
I've now played with the same cue the past 5 years and don't plan to EVER change again although I won't guarantee it. Play with what you like, try a bunch and eventually you'll settle for what you want.
I no longer search for the magic cue as it's just not out there. Every shaft I've tried has some deflection, the player has to adjust whether it's a little or a lot, makes no difference.
I've now played with the same cue the past 5 years and don't plan to EVER change again although I won't guarantee it. Play with what you like, try a bunch and eventually you'll settle for what you want.
When I switched to an OB-1 many moons ago I was able to make way more long shots with medium to extreme english that I could not make before with a standard shaft. I'm sure others can make those with a regular shaft, but I had a devil of a time learning to compensate for squirt, and swerve over longer distance shots. 
Now I am playing with a Tiger Pro-X that has a little more squirt, a good bit more feedback and a more traditional look as I take aim, no glue line stripes. Made in USA.
'Merica. Love it.
I am a 57 year old B player. Your mileage will certainly vary.
Now I am playing with a Tiger Pro-X that has a little more squirt, a good bit more feedback and a more traditional look as I take aim, no glue line stripes. Made in USA.
'Merica. Love it.
I am a 57 year old B player. Your mileage will certainly vary.
As to the answer of do they affect BHE...
Yes they do. All cues have a pivot point, which is the point at which if the cue is on the original no side spin aim line and is pivoted at that point for the amount of desired side spin, it will then hit the original aim point.
Standard shafts have a pivot point closer to the natural bridge and the most often instructed ideal bridge point. This makes it easier to use.
Low deflection/low squirt technology pushes the pivot point farther back, forcing someone who uses BHE to bridge farther back. It makes it cumbersome to use BHE with LD tech but not impossible. I was bridging at about 17 inches with my McDermott cue of the year with an I-2 shaft on it before switching to minute adjustments to the aim using mostly parallel english.
Jaden
Yes they do. All cues have a pivot point, which is the point at which if the cue is on the original no side spin aim line and is pivoted at that point for the amount of desired side spin, it will then hit the original aim point.
Standard shafts have a pivot point closer to the natural bridge and the most often instructed ideal bridge point. This makes it easier to use.
Low deflection/low squirt technology pushes the pivot point farther back, forcing someone who uses BHE to bridge farther back. It makes it cumbersome to use BHE with LD tech but not impossible. I was bridging at about 17 inches with my McDermott cue of the year with an I-2 shaft on it before switching to minute adjustments to the aim using mostly parallel english.
Jaden
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm not so interested in magic bullets as I am the technical aspects. example, if it were possible to take two players of identical ability, each one then acclimated to their shaft type (standard and LD), would there be any measurable difference in their play due to using an LD shaft?
I disagree.
Strictly from a physics and geometric standpoint smaller tips are more accurate. Now this is assuming one knows how to use it, you (anyone) have to take the time and learn how to. If you have already learned on a regular shaft with a large diameter then this is difficult. However saying a smaller tip makes no difference is simply wrong.
Striking the ball with a smaller tip will give a more precise and accurate shot and leave!
Ex: Lets say you have a shot in front of you, (none in particular) you line up, decide where you want the cue to lie afterword and figure exactly where to strike the cue to make it happen. When you strike the cue with a 13mm more surface area of the tip is making contact with that ball, when you strike with a 12 or 11mm less surface area is coming into contact. This requires that the shooter is more accurate in contacting the ball, but if the shot is hit correctly it will be more accurate than with a larger tip. Even if the shot is hit just as accurately with that lager tip.
Smaller tip and dime shape please
Roger, I'm glad at least that you recognize this is only your *opinion*. I think your own "testing" needs some serious revision. If you contact the cueball off center, there is a *significant* difference in the amount of cueball squirt between a standard maple shaft, and, say, a Predator Z2. This difference becomes more and more extreme the farther from center you go. You don't need a robot or anything...it is VERY obvious.
Strange post indeed...
KMRUNOUT
Are you sure you don't mean "they won't improve *my* game"? It sounds like you gave it a very limited try, recognized that you have to make some adjustments, decided not to bother, and then concluded that it wouldn't help your game. Your conclusion does not follow from your premises. These are the posts the OP has to filter out if they want accurate info...similar to Roger's above.
KMRUNOUT
Mohrt,
You're a bit mixed up here. You need to understand the difference between the terms "cue ball squirt", and "shaft deflection". When the tip contacts the cue ball lets say to the left of center, the shaft will flex and bend to the left, and the cue ball will "squirt" to the right. There is an "equal and opposite" thing going on here. The objective of a "LD" shaft is to minimize cue ball squirt. The way this is accomplished is by *maximizing* the amount of shaft deflection. They want the shaft to move more so the ball moves less. It's one or the other. This is why a lot of people think LD shafts have a hollow feel...because they glance off the cue ball on english shots more, whereas a solid maple shaft goes more "through" the cue ball (and it feels like it too.)
So really "low shaft deflection" is an incorrect term. It would be more accurate to call them Low Squirt shafts.
Hope this helps.
KMRUNOUT
Dave,
You are letting the fact that you *already learned the current skill* to influence your logic here. A LD shaft may require more work for *you* because you already feel comfortable doing things a different way. If you were new to the game, and didn't have any pre-established abilities, then a LD shaft will definitely make learning to *accurately* pocket balls with english easier. This is of course always true. The fact that you already invested time doing it another way is a red herring.
Also, the shot you posted does not involve much English. It is primarily follow. Thus a LD shaft would not provide any special benefit. If you want to compare, you need to use an example involving a lot of english.
KMRUNOUT
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I understand how squirt/deflection work. However, I did NOT correctly understand how LD shafts worked. Here I thought LD shafts were more rigid, but you are saying they actually flex more, not less. That is an important difference to know! This all stems from bad information I was given at a billiard shop long long ago. Glad that is straightened out
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Unlike most AZers, I am a "new" player (2 years). I began with an Player's HXT LD shaft and now use an OB1 LD shaft. So, I've never used anything but an LD shaft.
I'm comfortable (i.e. accurate) using 1-1/2 to 2 tips of outside english on a 5-foot cut shot with an LD shaft. I might rattle the ball in the pocket but that would have happened with no english too.
I tried playing with my friend's standard shaft (20-year old custom cue that he regularly runs 9-ball racks with). The results were laughable: on cut shots I hit the wrong side of the ball! Center-ball vertical plane was fine, but once I got off center it was like the CB had a mind of its own.
He likes playing with my OB cue, but he could play with a broomstick.
Bottom line, I think it's all what you get used to and how adaptable you are to change. As much as I like my LD shaft, it makes no sense to say there are things you can do with LD that you can't do with a regular shaft.
I'm comfortable (i.e. accurate) using 1-1/2 to 2 tips of outside english on a 5-foot cut shot with an LD shaft. I might rattle the ball in the pocket but that would have happened with no english too.
I tried playing with my friend's standard shaft (20-year old custom cue that he regularly runs 9-ball racks with). The results were laughable: on cut shots I hit the wrong side of the ball! Center-ball vertical plane was fine, but once I got off center it was like the CB had a mind of its own.
He likes playing with my OB cue, but he could play with a broomstick.
Bottom line, I think it's all what you get used to and how adaptable you are to change. As much as I like my LD shaft, it makes no sense to say there are things you can do with LD that you can't do with a regular shaft.
If you are able to go down on a shot that requires english and find your cue parallel to line of aim then LD will be most helpful 100%
If you normally go down on an english shot and find your cue pivoted/crossing the line of aim then any cue from $10 to $1000 will be equally good,
If you normally shoot with long bridge, and pivoted then it does not matter whether LD or HD
Ok so here's my take on "low deflection" shafts. I think they're an over hyped farce. And I think that Dominic Esposito is even more of a farce. To see him promote Predator shafts at the big billiards events and telling and convincing mediocre players that their game will improve dramatically with the purchase of one of his shafts is a travesty. His demonstrations are a joke because he doesn't hit balls with his Predator shafts the same identical way he'll hit a ball with your shaft and I've called him out on it. Most of the demo shots he misses anyway and always is ready with an excuse for why he missed. In addition to that let's be honest - in playing on a 7' table where most of your shots are short and easily hit stop shots it doesn't matter what kind of shaft you use. I cringe every time I see a lower skilled player pull his/her wallet out and buy a new Predator shaft from him thinking that their game is going to immediately raise by leaps and bounds. It won't. Lower skilled players miss shots not because of the shaft but because their aim is off. They'll miss long cut shots no matter what shaft they use. It's a simple as that. But hey that's just my opinion.