Luther Lassiter loses to unknown player in Oakland - 1955

Silver Q

CoolChicky said:
Nope...two different characters. Oakland Blackie hung out at Queens on Webster Street in Alameda during the late 60's and early 70's. I remember him wanting to match up when I purchased a Robinson cue there. Another good room in Alameda was the Blue Carpet from which Tall Paul and Billy Aguero hailed. There was decent money from the Navy base there but when it closed things went south. I think Tooth owned a piece of Queens in Alameda. He also owned Freddies in Castro Valley and another room, Q's in Hayward.

In Berkeley there was always the Student Union at Cal, Kipps where Chris McDonald worked or Town and Country on University where Tony Bowles played in the 60's.

Chino's (formerly Silver Q) was a great room. Chino (Augustine Ballesteros) owned 12th Street Pool Hall in downtown Oakland which closed in the late 60's. I was very young then but remember that the place had a lot of tables and tons of action. I can remember a dozen or so rooms in the Downtown/Chinatown area...all gone now. I first learned to play at a small Oakland room named Cortez on Webster Street. All the old Filipino men played rotation...big surprise there, huh? In around '65 or so there was a Filipino player named Bigfoot who spotted everybody 2 to 3 balls playing 6 ball. 6 ball was a nickel a rack and the house man (Chris) would rack the balls for you. Nine ball was ten cents a rack and it cost 60 cents/hour for table time. The old clay balls used to crack so they kept a basket of replacement balls on the floor next to the spittoon...funny stuff. I only got to go there because my older brothers took me. Needless to say I was the only girl there.

Chino's was a great one pocket room. I learned the game from a couple of decent players...Rushout Red and J__ Joe (he was Japanese and I don't wan't to use the racist J word). Joe passed away in '88 or so, Rushout Red went back to Topeka I believe. Oakland Herbie was/is a master at Three Card Monte and used to play some.

Getting back to Chico, I remember a couple of guys that I regarded as players telling me that he had game at one time. Anyways, thanks for the thread as it brings back some fond memories.
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That's the place i remember
1st poolroom i ever wandered into,brand spankin New...Me and a couple of buddys would go there on a lunch break and play 6-ball..Worked at Mullen's pharmacy on 40th & Broadway while going to Laney JC and always ended up at Silver Q at the end of the day or night!!
Played everyone you mentioned and a whole lot more..What fun! I remember 12th street as well..Actually there were 2 poolrooms side by side upstairs,sadly 1 was for everyone and the other seemed to be all black..Chino's was for everyone!!
The Blue Carpet opened a few years later and was the action spot in the east bay for a lot of years..
it never recieved the recognition of the Palace or Cochran's but it had all the action you could want..Weekends after midnight if you weren't gambling ,they would kick you off the table for someone that would..Tall Paul and Billy the Coat use to come over from San Leandro once in a while but most of the action in Blue Bucket was stirred up by Bucktooth ,Danny Fitz, Bruce Norris,or me(Terry Osborne)..:cool:
 
Back in the late 80s when I went to Cal-Berkeley, the only pool room within a short distance to campus where there was action was Chinos in Oakland. If I remember correct it was on Telegraph ave, I just hopped on a bus and went down to the heart of Oakland. Scary looking neighborhood, esp since I didnt have a car and had to sit on the sidewalk for a while waiting for the bus. Chinos was a hardcore pool room too. The room was full of players, railbirds and the regular cast of characters you see in an action pool room with history.

During the years I was there, Town and Country was devoid of action as was the Student Union. Every once in a while someone would stop into the Student Union (like when I played Bob Jewett a race to 7 for $20 in 1989) but overall Chris MacDonald and all the great black players in Oakland never came up to campus at all. If you wanted to get played in Berkeley you had to travel.

The one pool hall I really liked alot but it was nearly impossible to get to without a car easily was Family Billiards in SF. I also played a bit at California billiards and wow what a great pool hall that room was.
 
sixpack said:
I was giving a friend of mine a ride home last night and he told me a story about his younger days. Seems he was playing all comers at an old pool room in Oakland, 9 ball $10 & $20 in 1955. He played a fella for a while and finally the guy broke down his cue and said, "Come with me on the road, we'll get rich." My buddy said "now why would I do that?". The stranger said "I'm the best 9-ball player in the world, and I don't know if I can beat you."

Turns out it was Luther Lassiter.

I don't want to post his name, but if someone guesses it I'll tell you you're right.

I don't know if this really happened, what do you think?

Cheers,
RC
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Your story is interesting. So why would your friend LIE, or BS you as other have said he might have.

What is in it for him to spin a tale?;)
 
What I think.

PoolSleuth said:
Your story is interesting. So why would your friend LIE, or BS you as other have said he might have.

What is in it for him to spin a tale?;)
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First of all, thanks to everyone for the great stories of Oakland and Alameda. I haven't lived here that long so it's great to get the history.

As for my friend lying. I don't think he lied. I think it probably happened exactly like he said it did. He played a guy until the guy quit, the guy told him he wasn't sure if he could beat him and did he want to go on the road. That guy turned out to be Luther Lassiter.

HOWEVER, in my experience on the forums, if I stated it as fact and that I believed it, then the first 15 posts would be calling me a liar and calling my friend a liar. I don't mind them calling me a liar, but I certainly don't want to impune his reputation on here. By stating it as a good story, I was hoping people would enjoy the story more and think about it rather than try disprove immediately. I'm very happy with the way the thread has gone and I really appreciate everybody's input. The pool history of Oakland is very rich indeed.

I enjoy going to the Broken Rack in Emeryville and talking with the likes of Poker Paul and Chico and a whole cast of characters from the old days. The stories they have to tell and the characters they've met during their time are amazing. Anybody who enjoys 1-pocket should go there during the day and play some for $5, $10 or whatever you want and just enjoy the game and the people who make it what it is.

Cheers,
RC
 
So who was this mystery man?

This thread has gone on long enough. Who was this guy? I personally racked my brain and could not come up with anyone who would fit into the "I dont know if I can beat you." category. I knew and played all the great black players of that era. Lassiter could give any one of them the seven or the eight playing Nineball. Marvin Henderson, Johnny Chapman, Cecil Tugwell, Bugs, etc. In the Stardust Vegas tournament in 72 or 73 Billy Incardona was ranked #1 in the World playing Nineball. He asked Wimpy for the eight ball -- in front of me! Lassiter instead offered him 4 games on the wire going to 20 ahead for 20 grand. Billy refused. This story smells like a weak fish tale.

the Beard
Bank on, brother!
 
freddy the beard said:
This thread has gone on long enough. Who was this guy? I personally racked my brain and could not come up with anyone who would fit into the "I dont know if I can beat you." category. I knew and played all the great black players of that era. Lassiter could give any one of them the seven or the eight playing Nineball. Marvin Henderson, Johnny Chapman, Cecil Tugwell, Bugs, etc. In the Stardust Vegas tournament in 72 or 73 Billy Incardona was ranked #1 in the World playing Nineball. He asked Wimpy for the eight ball -- in front of me! Lassiter instead offered him 4 games on the wire going to 20 ahead for 20 grand. Billy refused. This story smells like a weak fish tale.

the Beard
Bank on, brother!
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Hey Fred,

His name is Chico. I don't know any other name for him than that. Maybe some of the other people who responded to this thread that knew him might. He is at the Broken Rack in Emeryville every day. His best pool days are behind him, and probably were in 72 as well. He is gotta be in his late 70's early 80's judging by the time he went in the service etc...

Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
Hey Fred,

His name is Chico. I don't know any other name for him than that. Maybe some of the other people who responded to this thread that knew him might. He is at the Broken Rack in Emeryville every day. His best pool days are behind him, and probably were in 72 as well. He is gotta be in his late 70's early 80's judging by the time he went in the service etc...

Cheers,
RC
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I know Chico well, I have also heard about this story of Chico playing Luther Lassiter all night and staying even and I think he actually won the next day. Chico is quite a guy with tons of good pool stories. I heard about this story about a year ago but I do not know if it is true or not. Poker Paul also knew about the story of Chico beating Luther. The person that just might know how well Chico played is Billy Palmer. If we could get his input then we could get to the bottom of this story. I knew Chico back in the late 60's but never played him and never saw him play so I don't know how well he played. I think back then Marv Henderson was the best black player in the Bay Area from what I have heard.

Just the same, Chico is quite a character and I enjoy hearing all his pool stories he has watched and he must be about 80+ years of age by now. You can see him & meet him in Emerville, CA like was mentioned earlier in this tread at the Broken Rack on tuesday nights.
 
Ron Cook said:
I know Chico well, I have also heard about this story of Chico playing Luther Lassiter all night and staying even and I think he actually won the next day. Chico is quite a guy with tons of good pool stories. I heard about this story about a year ago but I do not know if it is true or not. Poker Paul also knew about the story of Chico beating Luther. The person that just might know how well Chico played is Billy Palmer. If we could get his input then we could get to the bottom of this story. I knew Chico back in the late 60's but never played him and never saw him play so I don't know how well he played. I think back then Marv Henderson was the best black player in the Bay Area from what I have heard.

Just the same, Chico is quite a character and I enjoy hearing all his pool stories he has watched and he must be about 80+ years of age by now. You can see him & meet him in Emerville, CA like was mentioned earlier in this tread at the Broken Rack on tuesday nights.
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I think you heard about it because of this thread. Paul told me he had several people ask him if it was true....lol...he's pissed at me for putting it on here. On the other hand, Chico loved it and wanted me to put more of his stories up here, but I haven't...

Haven't run into you yet Ron, but wouldn't mind playing some 1-pocket or nine ball sometime if you're around at the broken rack.

Cheers,
RC
 
freddy the beard said:
I take Tacoma Whitey back. It must have been Portland Don Watson or Oakland Don Decoy.

the Beard
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These are the only two I can think of also. Even Don Watson would have been in his 20's then.
 
Im sure its a true story,i mean at the that level playing nine ball,anyone can have a good night.:) An old timer who goes by the name of Jimmy Abel has beat alot of world champions in straight including the Miz and Mosconi,he admitted in the long run say 1500 point match he would have lost but in a single game anything can happen.He was also for a long time a world record holder for most balls pocketed in 24 hours until it was broken a few years back.
 
smashmouth said:
Mosconi AND Mizerak? hmmmm....
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Yes and a few other world champions too,he wrote a book too called Best Shot but good luck finding it,its very informative and focuses alot on the mental aspects of the game.
 
I have heard this same story but it was Don Willis and Luther Lassiter playing and after Willis beat him Lassiter asked him to go on the road saying he was the world champion and he did not know if he could beat Willis
 
If Chico is about 5'8" with medium skin tone, then I may have played him in a mostly black poolroom in Oakland in the late 60's. I played a couple of guys in there, and I couldn't beat the second guy. He looked like he was stalling, that much I remember. I never found out how good he was, because I quit him when we were even. We were playing $5 9-Ball.

There were two or three other guys in there asking me to bet on the side. That indicated to me he was a good player. He kind of fooled around and went for some low percentage shots. I don't know what he was waiting for. He could have beat me for 40 or 50, if he came off the stall. I maybe played him twenty games and pulled up. Something seemed funny about the game. There was a little too much attention on a $5 game.

He was a nice guy though, even shook my hand when I quit and told me I played "real good". His exact words. I never saw him again. He was a older than me, maybe in his late 30's to early 40's.
 
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Wasn't Danny McGoorty in that area around that time. I did not read that he used a different name in that time period though he may have earlier.

OOPS, could not have been him as he is dead, unless you were riding with a ghost. Just re-read the original post.
 
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jay helfert said:
If Chico is about 5'8" with medium skin tone, then I may have played him in a mostly black poolroom in Oakland in the late 60's. I played a couple of guys in there, and I couldn't beat the second guy. He looked like he was stalling, that much I remember. I never found out how good he was, because I quit him when we were even. We were playing $5 9-Ball.

There were two or three other guys in there asking me to bet on the side. That indicated to me he was a good player. He kind of fooled around and went for some low percentage shots. I don't know what he was waiting for. He could have beat me for 40 or 50, if he came off the stall. I maybe played him twenty games and pulled up. Something seemed funny about the game. There was a little too much attention on a $5 game.

He was a nice guy though, even shook my hand when I quit and told me I played "real good". His exact words. I never saw him again. He was a older than me, maybe in his late 30's to early 40's.
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Chico has told me that I play "real good"...exact quote too. Course he also told me I had to give weight to Annigoni, so he might be slipping a little...:)

Maybe he WAS 5'8, but not anymore. He might have the dwindles, but he's about 5'5 or 5'6 now.

He has a distinctive voice...but that could be the result of many years of smoking cigars.

Could have been him. Truth is, there were A LOT of great black players in Oakland and Alameda in those days. Some of the stories I hear from guys I play with are hard to believe, but somehow I think the vast majority are true. It's amazing how many times I'll see a strange face and ask one of my older buddies about him and they'll say, "Oh, that's so and so, he was Gabby's road partner for 7 years" or "Oh, that's such and such, he and I went on a road trip through the south during the cotton harvest in '64 and won thousands. He beat everyone he played."

I suspect there are these stories everywhere, someone should catch up with these old timers and get those stories recorded before it's too late.

There's another old timer here named Jesse who just started showing up again after a long hiatus...he's 75 or so, about 6'1 and lean...He loves to jump on young guys that think they can play and just run all over them. He's a pleasure to watch, he still shoots those long shots like they're hangars and runs out a lot.

Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
Chico has told me that I play "real good"...exact quote too. Course he also told me I had to give weight to Annigoni, so he might be slipping a little...:)

Maybe he WAS 5'8, but not anymore. He might have the dwindles, but he's about 5'5 or 5'6 now.

He has a distinctive voice...but that could be the result of many years of smoking cigars.

Could have been him. Truth is, there were A LOT of great black players in Oakland and Alameda in those days. Some of the stories I hear from guys I play with are hard to believe, but somehow I think the vast majority are true. It's amazing how many times I'll see a strange face and ask one of my older buddies about him and they'll say, "Oh, that's so and so, he was Gabby's road partner for 7 years" or "Oh, that's such and such, he and I went on a road trip through the south during the cotton harvest in '64 and won thousands. He beat everyone he played."

I suspect there are these stories everywhere, someone should catch up with these old timers and get those stories recorded before it's too late.

There's another old timer here named Jesse who just started showing up again after a long hiatus...he's 75 or so, about 6'1 and lean...He loves to jump on young guys that think they can play and just run all over them. He's a pleasure to watch, he still shoots those long shots like they're hangars and runs out a lot.

Cheers,
RC
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You talking about the Jesse they called "Goaway", cause believe it or not, I played him too at Cochran's on the same trip. We played $10 and $20 One Pocket. He played good too.
 
jay helfert said:
You talking about the Jesse they called "Goaway", cause believe it or not, I played him too at Cochran's on the same trip. We played $10 and $20 One Pocket. He played good too.
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I heard recently that he is still in the City playing and playing pretty good.
 
I liked this thread. We have many discussions about players and where they played and the action at our pool room. The pool room is always full of stories. Many stories of Don Watson,Tacoma Whitey even San jose Dick are told. Some of the old timers shared and passed down the stories. The stories that seem to end up on the forum by others, like this one.
 
jay helfert said:
You talking about the Jesse they called "Goaway", cause believe it or not, I played him too at Cochran's on the same trip. We played $10 and $20 One Pocket. He played good too.
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I believe that is the same guy. He runs out like a 30 y.o. but plays safe like a 70 y.o. Fun guy to watch play for me. He'll tell you that he doesn't play anywhere near what he used to, but I like to watch him play all the same.

I enjoy watching the stroke a lot of the old-timers have, even though they don't make 'em like they used to, you can see the years (and mileage) in their stroke and that tells a story in itself to me.

Cheers,
RC
 
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