Machinist level?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
A local online auction has it. I thought it was interesting. I think I'll keep an eye on what it goes for.
Any idea on what it might be worth?
snookered_again
Well-known member
Ive used them lots for setting up machinery , printing presses. They come on the back of a semi in units. one or two on a lowbed.. they are heavy things..
a press may have up to about 10 units or so coupled together. the geartrain is all helical cut gears that run in an oilbath, and the mesh is dependent on extremely accurate level , height and distance. - it's an adjustment in 3 planes BTW, not only level...
as the sheet travels through it is gripped by one cylinder, and passed to the next and there is a small amount of dwell and then the first set opens.
that sheet may be passed between 40 different cylinders as it passes through , printing each subsequent color... cyan yellow magenta and black , maybe spot colors and coatings as well ..
Perfecter presses flip the sheet end for end and print the other side of the sheet in one pass..
the physics of transporting a sheet through all those transfer points and not moving or twisting it or distorting it by even .001" and not damaging the sheet at all are truly incredible.
If the sheet moves out of register even the slightest you have a problem with overlapping colors not fitting.. photos look blurry and distorted.
now its just wasting paper because those sheets are unacceptable.
web presses like used for newspapaers and flyers require less accuracy than a lot of the work done on a sheetfed.. web presses are faster. but still very precision machines requireing similar accuracy in setup.
a lot of the mechanincal adjustments relate to the level and they dont work right if they are not level.
Setting up a pool table is not comparable, the tolerances are much less stringent, I agree, with lots of experience levelling machinery, a level like that will only drive you nuts.
I'd use a level but note that, also if you just place a ball on the bare slate with no cloth, and roll it and watch what it does, that gets you pretty close.. You can so easily see by that which way they want to go and adjust , then use the level after you get that close.. I'm not saying dont use a level, just that pool ball can also be a handy way to check things.. if a bare ball wants to run to the same end, or runs in some criss cross direction you can see it pretty easily without even picking up the level. .. Of course use a level as well to confirm and for final checks.
from what I saw on levelling mine, I can get close enough with just a pool ball that I can take a playing card and insert it under one side or the other of the slate and see the level move..
anything like a pool slate or a machine can easily be sitting level on 3 feet but still be in a position where it can rock or shift due to it basically sitting on 3 points not 4. so you can make sure you have 4 point contact at least..
on mine I needed some shims and used some heavy vinyl flooring as shims to get me close. the frame is super heavy wood made in one section, some twist was expected. luckily the center was the high point so once I had the center slate level and I knew i needed to shim the ends somewhat, then I wouldnt get trapped , becaue if course, you can only lower the slate until it contacts the frame.
most other tables have adjustable feet and the frames can bend or twist somewhat but this thing I had was super solid, the frame itself weighs a huge amount, most tables have a frame that can disassemble, not this one.
my thinking was that the slight compressibliity of the vinyl flooring might allow it to bear weight more evenly than if I were to use harder shims.. or just wood wedges..
I felt that once I was trying to go beyond a sheet of bond paper ( .003) as an adjustment , i was about as close as I can get, next I'd be fussing about how flat the slate was and you can go further if you wish.. until you are happy or can not get any closer..
same for a so called "professional mechanic" it means he being paid for it, so you pay him by the hour until you are happy.. do you want 2 full days of levelling, no. likely not.. so set reasonable expectations for when you agree enough is enough.. maybe fair enough to pop a pool ball on the bare slate roll it slow, and watch together , you could insist he goes further or say thats ok.. or trust his judgement.
depending where you install, the weight of the table may shift the floor over time too.. best if it's on concrete..
by comparison, a multi unit printing press requires a base of 2 feet of solid concrete, they don't want it shifting.. so they normally cut out the existing floor and pour an extremely solid foundation.. so that it can be leveled to that kind of accuracy when in place.. . that would be rediculous for a pool table.. going way outide a practical tolerance is not going to improve the overall performance, but You can go as far as you like if you are alone doing it for yourself..
if you find yourself with a table with the cloth off, you can try just a pool ball , observe what happens.. If the ball wants to pick the same way to travel, you can get it closer. You may also find dips and valleys that way.. at that point you are splitting differences..
im not saying a level isn't required but maybe you wanted to change a cloth had no level to use , and wanted to check if the floor had shifted or if things looked basically close to ok, that pool ball trick may work ok there..
a press may have up to about 10 units or so coupled together. the geartrain is all helical cut gears that run in an oilbath, and the mesh is dependent on extremely accurate level , height and distance. - it's an adjustment in 3 planes BTW, not only level...
as the sheet travels through it is gripped by one cylinder, and passed to the next and there is a small amount of dwell and then the first set opens.
that sheet may be passed between 40 different cylinders as it passes through , printing each subsequent color... cyan yellow magenta and black , maybe spot colors and coatings as well ..
Perfecter presses flip the sheet end for end and print the other side of the sheet in one pass..
the physics of transporting a sheet through all those transfer points and not moving or twisting it or distorting it by even .001" and not damaging the sheet at all are truly incredible.
If the sheet moves out of register even the slightest you have a problem with overlapping colors not fitting.. photos look blurry and distorted.
now its just wasting paper because those sheets are unacceptable.
web presses like used for newspapaers and flyers require less accuracy than a lot of the work done on a sheetfed.. web presses are faster. but still very precision machines requireing similar accuracy in setup.
a lot of the mechanincal adjustments relate to the level and they dont work right if they are not level.
Setting up a pool table is not comparable, the tolerances are much less stringent, I agree, with lots of experience levelling machinery, a level like that will only drive you nuts.
I'd use a level but note that, also if you just place a ball on the bare slate with no cloth, and roll it and watch what it does, that gets you pretty close.. You can so easily see by that which way they want to go and adjust , then use the level after you get that close.. I'm not saying dont use a level, just that pool ball can also be a handy way to check things.. if a bare ball wants to run to the same end, or runs in some criss cross direction you can see it pretty easily without even picking up the level. .. Of course use a level as well to confirm and for final checks.
from what I saw on levelling mine, I can get close enough with just a pool ball that I can take a playing card and insert it under one side or the other of the slate and see the level move..
anything like a pool slate or a machine can easily be sitting level on 3 feet but still be in a position where it can rock or shift due to it basically sitting on 3 points not 4. so you can make sure you have 4 point contact at least..
on mine I needed some shims and used some heavy vinyl flooring as shims to get me close. the frame is super heavy wood made in one section, some twist was expected. luckily the center was the high point so once I had the center slate level and I knew i needed to shim the ends somewhat, then I wouldnt get trapped , becaue if course, you can only lower the slate until it contacts the frame.
most other tables have adjustable feet and the frames can bend or twist somewhat but this thing I had was super solid, the frame itself weighs a huge amount, most tables have a frame that can disassemble, not this one.
my thinking was that the slight compressibliity of the vinyl flooring might allow it to bear weight more evenly than if I were to use harder shims.. or just wood wedges..
I felt that once I was trying to go beyond a sheet of bond paper ( .003) as an adjustment , i was about as close as I can get, next I'd be fussing about how flat the slate was and you can go further if you wish.. until you are happy or can not get any closer..
same for a so called "professional mechanic" it means he being paid for it, so you pay him by the hour until you are happy.. do you want 2 full days of levelling, no. likely not.. so set reasonable expectations for when you agree enough is enough.. maybe fair enough to pop a pool ball on the bare slate roll it slow, and watch together , you could insist he goes further or say thats ok.. or trust his judgement.
depending where you install, the weight of the table may shift the floor over time too.. best if it's on concrete..
by comparison, a multi unit printing press requires a base of 2 feet of solid concrete, they don't want it shifting.. so they normally cut out the existing floor and pour an extremely solid foundation.. so that it can be leveled to that kind of accuracy when in place.. . that would be rediculous for a pool table.. going way outide a practical tolerance is not going to improve the overall performance, but You can go as far as you like if you are alone doing it for yourself..
if you find yourself with a table with the cloth off, you can try just a pool ball , observe what happens.. If the ball wants to pick the same way to travel, you can get it closer. You may also find dips and valleys that way.. at that point you are splitting differences..
im not saying a level isn't required but maybe you wanted to change a cloth had no level to use , and wanted to check if the floor had shifted or if things looked basically close to ok, that pool ball trick may work ok there..