Magic Bullets and Dead Horses

thomba02 said:
you guys are funny...arguing about whether low deflection is the magic bullet. both sides have a point, but i think softshot has no idea how LD is suppose to help.

i believe that practice IS the key to getting better. however, having a LD shaft will speed up the learning curve because you can just aim and shoot (for the most part) without worrying about how deflection will affect the shot.

comparing LD shafts and regular shafts are like apples and oranges. once you adjust to one or the other, the game is basically the same. i have used both types of shafts, and the adjustment period of each shaft was roughly the same, but with the LD shaft, it is easier to just aim and not have to worry too much about how much the cue ball will swerve. the shaft basically took out a big element of physics in pool and allowed beginners to learn faster by being able to control the cueball.
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I do understand LD I actually own a 314. I find it to be poorly made and not nearly as durable. as my stock production shaft.

It took a few days to adjust to it.. and it took me a few days to adjust back.

I can run balls with either. my skill on a pool table has NOTHING to do with the deflection of my shaft once I learn to compensate for it.
 
Good points I think, especially about tools. I stand by my assertion that practice is the only way to improve skill, but having the best tools available is certainly a factor that can't be ignored.

While the great players of yerteryear didn't have today's LD shafts and phenolic-tipped jumpers/breakers, they did have shoes. The point being that they did use the best tools technology had to offer at the time and used that, instead of, say, a shoe. I think that no matter how many hours of practice Mosconi put in shooting with a shoe, he'd still lose to the average Joe playing with a regular cue. So would they have used an LD shaft if they were available back then? I think they probably would have.

It takes less skill to shoot accurately with an LD shaft. If, as an extreme example, shooting extreme english with a regular shaft (without miscueing) produced 80 degrees of deflection, 1/2 extreme 40 degrees, etc., then aiming with english would probably take a lifetime of practice. Any time that number is reduced it means less practice, so I'd have to call that a Good Thing. If an LD shaft cuts deflection from 3 degrees to 1.5 then it will take less skill to compensate for it, which means less practice, which means I'll be more accurate faster.

So I have to partially retract my statement that equipment can do nothing to improve your game. I maintain that practice is still the only remedy for lack of skill, but I certainly can't argue that acquiring the skill to aim accurately in 1 year is better than it taking 2. And, reducing the margin of error caused by deflection means the pockets will be at least a little bit more forgiving of any errors made when calculating the compensation for it.

Cig
 
If you took me and a clone of me, gave one a LD shaft and the other a regular shaft, let us both spend a week with Hal, and we both practiced 50 hours a week for a solid year, after that year we would BOTH suck :embarrassed2: ! Hell, if I can't hit my ass with a stick of dynamite, then how in the hell is my clone going to hit his :confused: ? I suck at pool no matter the equipment and no matter how much I practice/play, and so would my clone :frown: ! But, I can live with that as I still LOVE the heck out of the game!!!

Maniac
 
softshot said:
NO I am NOT..

without practice none of the things you read or buy will help you.

with diligent practice most will help.. but the practice had more to do with it than the system or product.
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Only to a point. You're being a bit anal about this. All the things you seem to disagree with help to some degree. But, and I can tell you this from my own experience, after a certain point all the practice in the world is not going to help if you don't start to pit yourself against better players, be it gambling or in tournament play. Forget leagues, too social. I aim a certain way and I don't use low deflection shafts. I like to practice, when I do, with people who are as serious about the game as I am. But, I'm here to tell you, practice, by yourself, gets you only so far. Get over it.
 
Pushout said:
Only to a point. You're being a bit anal about this. All the things you seem to disagree with help to some degree. But, and I can tell you this from my own experience, after a certain point all the practice in the world is not going to help if you don't start to pit yourself against better players, be it gambling or in tournament play. Forget leagues, too social. I aim a certain way and I don't use low deflection shafts. I like to practice, when I do, with people who are as serious about the game as I am. But, I'm here to tell you, practice, by yourself, gets you only so far. Get over it.
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So true,......you can't practice effectly without knowing your weak points and the only way to do that is serious competition.
 
rossaroni said:
That is fine. I will be at Shooters tomorrow night if you can stop by. I will be out of town this weekend. What game/games would you like to play? How about bar table 8-ball,big table 9-ball and one pocket? You don't gamble at all, right?
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Softshot, since Ross will be out of town this weekend I will take his place at Shooter's. I will play you bar table 8-ball, big table 10-ball, straight pool, and one pocket for 50-200 a set. I only play 5 hours a week and use a predator shaft so it should be a walk in the park for you. What do you say?
 
tanco said:
Softshot, since Ross will be out of town this weekend I will take his place at Shooter's. I will play you bar table 8-ball, big table 10-ball, straight pool, and one pocket for 50-200 a set. I only play 5 hours a week and use a predator shaft so it should be a walk in the park for you. What do you say?
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I don't gamble.. as a rule..

I agreed to a $50 AZB king match because I thought it might be fun... meet some good players... shoot some pool..

If the Burnsville "Shooters" crowd.. thinks I am showing up with a brinks truck ready to take all comers... your wrong..

I'm coming with the $50 for the challenge match.. and enough spare change to cover beer and table time... thats it...

you guys can quit licking your chops now..

if you want to play me... absolutely.. I'm in

if you think I am the fish of the day.... I'm not..
 
softshot said:
I don't gamble.. as a rule..

I agreed to a $50 AZB king match because I thought it might be fun... meet some good players... shoot some pool..

If the Burnsville "Shooters" crowd.. thinks I am showing up with a brinks truck ready to take all comers... your wrong..

I'm coming with the $50 for the challenge match.. and enough spare change to cover beer and table time... thats it...

you guys can quit licking your chops now..

if you want to play me... absolutely.. I'm in

if you think I am the fish of the day.... I'm not..
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you dont even have to leave mankato if you want some action...go play the boyers or lowe or anybody that plays on their teams for that matter.
 
softshot said:
I do understand LD I actually own a 314. I find it to be poorly made and not nearly as durable. as my stock production shaft. It took a few days to adjust to it.. and it took me a few days to adjust back.

I can run balls with either. my skill on a pool table has NOTHING to do with the deflection of my shaft once I learn to compensate for it.
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Yep...yep...one of, if not THE most successful shaft manufacturers of all time makes a terrible product and we users are just dumb suckers and YOU know it all.

LOL
 
av84fun said:
Yep...yep...one of, if not THE most successful shaft manufacturers of all time makes a terrible product and we users are just dumb suckers and YOU know it all.

LOL
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best selling products and highest quality products are very RARELY the same product..

Toyota sells lots of cars but a Bentley is a much higher quality car.

Budweiser sells a lot of beer. but Samuel Adams is a higher quality product.

I brought up the Idea of breaking with a predator shaft on here a while back and it was met with "OMG don't do that you'll break the shaft"

if any shaft isn't durable enough to shoot the only shot in 8 or 9 ball that comes up EVERY SINGLE GAME.

then I would hesitate to call it a quality durable product..

maybe that's just me
 
i break with my playing cue, which has a predator shaft...and have been doing so for 3-4 or so years. its been working great for me.

i agree that if you cant use a shaft to do all of the shots needed in a pool game, then the shaft isn't worth squat.
 
purpose built product

I don't have a dog in this fight since I am not using fancy spliced shafts but I will point out that the Predator 314 and others are purpose built shafts. They are designed for playing, not breaking. I designed a special shaft taper for breaking. It breaks very well. Somebody tried a few breaks with it and liked it. Then they tried a few shots with it and commented that the shaft felt "dead". Very little feedback. That was true. It was designed for minimum flex and resonance to put maximum force into the cue ball. It's a good break shaft and while it would hold up forever playing with it, it is a lousy playing shaft.

Or put another way, "horses for courses"

Hu





softshot said:
best selling products and highest quality products are very RARELY the same product..

Toyota sells lots of cars but a Bentley is a much higher quality car.

Budweiser sells a lot of beer. but Samuel Adams is a higher quality product.

I brought up the Idea of breaking with a predator shaft on here a while back and it was met with "OMG don't do that you'll break the shaft"

if any shaft isn't durable enough to shoot the only shot in 8 or 9 ball that comes up EVERY SINGLE GAME.

then I would hesitate to call it a quality durable product..

maybe that's just me
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ShootingArts said:
I don't have a dog in this fight since I am not using fancy spliced shafts but I will point out that the Predator 314 and others are purpose built shafts. They are designed for playing, not breaking. I designed a special shaft taper for breaking. It breaks very well. Somebody tried a few breaks with it and liked it. Then they tried a few shots with it and commented that the shaft felt "dead". Very little feedback. That was true. It was designed for minimum flex and resonance to put maximum force into the cue ball. It's a good break shaft and while it would hold up forever playing with it, it is a lousy playing shaft.

Or put another way, "horses for courses"

Hu
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you can't play if you don't break the rack.... the break is the most common shot in pool.. it comes up every game..a "playing cue" should be durable enough to withstand the most common shot in the game.

I see what you are saying ...

but I am not a huge fan of making cue cases into golf bags...jump cue, break cue, masse cue.. cue for short shots cue for long shots... a specific tip and taper for 3 rail kicks.. where does it end??

correct me if I am wrong but for many years the rules only allowed one cue per player... I like that Idea

I think 1 good overall cue is better than 3 or 4 purpose built cues

but I am probably in the minority..
 
softshot said:
I believe gambling is required for an AZB king match freindly $50 is the bet as I understand it..

I'll play box 8, big table straight pool, or big table 10ball with safety breaks allowed and the 1,2,3 balls must be spotted on the corners..

tomarrow night "might" be doable though next Wednesday would probably be better for me

this deserves its own thread i'd like to keep this one on track..
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So is this match between softshot and rossaroni going to happen this evening?
 
Rules are the only thing that will prevent cues multiplying

I dislike toting a lot of gear but at the same time I have to acknowledge that when I travel without a break cue and jump cue I am giving my opponent a spot. I'm not so good that I can afford to spot many people these days. I could be happy with a "one cue" rule but I don't think we will ever see that in common usage again.

I do think that specialty cues and shafts are the future simply because folks are always hunting a gimmick to give them an edge. When you are toting multiple tools I don't see why a playing shaft should be able to be break the balls too anymore than I should be able to drive a ball with a putter.


Hu




softshot said:
you can't play if you don't break the rack.... the break is the most common shot in pool.. it comes up every game..a "playing cue" should be durable enough to withstand the most common shot in the game.

I see what you are saying ...

but I am not a huge fan of making cue cases into golf bags...jump cue, break cue, masse cue.. cue for short shots cue for long shots... a specific tip and taper for 3 rail kicks.. where does it end??

correct me if I am wrong but for many years the rules only allowed one cue per player... I like that Idea

I think 1 good overall cue is better than 3 or 4 purpose built cues

but I am probably in the minority..
Click to expand...
 
You don't have to leave Mankato and I'll play you a challenge match softshot. And I'm not in the same catagory as Boyer's and lowe, so I should be no problem. I'll also let you pick which Predator shaft in my case you want me to shoot with. What do you say?

And if you win, you can try to double that money with someone else, I can get you a line of guys with Predators that will shoot for the $50. I'm guessing thomba would be right there with me, if I'm thinking of the right Thom.
 
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