Manalo's First Loss Sux

BAD officiating!

bruin70 said:
if it was going to be a very thin hit in a very crucial play, why didn't anyone call the ref to get a close look at the shot. they always ask the ref to watch a close shot in 9ball, don't they?

ref's AND manolo's fault, yes?

btw,,,that's a kick-ass bank
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It is the referees responsibility to get in position to call a shot. That is IF he knows what he is doing.
 
JAWS said:
i believe that there are times when asking the audience is acceptable under the rules
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A good referee should NEVER have to ask the audience what happened. Period!
 
jay helfert said:
It is the referees responsibility to get in position to call a shot. That is IF he knows what he is doing.
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i have not seen that to be always the case. only the shooter knows when he is going to do something particularly delicate.

anyway, live and learn. it's done.
 
I think that both Busta and the ref should of taken Marlons word over someone in the crowd.
 
jay helfert said:
They need better Refs! And someone tell Kirstin Pires that one game is not a "set". HELLO!
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Yeah, that one bugged me too. Get in there Jay and show 'em how to ref!
 
They were pretty much relying on the honor system the whole tourney so the refs weren't really on the ball.

Marlon should have asked the ref to be near the shot and he should have protested at the time of the decision rather than after Busta won the match.

Easy to say with hindsight, but little lapses in focus like that can cost people the matches.

Marlon played the wrong shot and invited trouble. He already had BIH and could have played a ball into the center and kissed his dead ball out as he had 2 hangers. His other option was to knock one of his balls near the dead ball cluster and at the same time hook Busta so he couldn't have knocked it away.

But he played a near useless safety that invited confusion in the crowd. It seemed few understood he had played to graze the ball.

But this ref stuff up was nothing compared to the one that followed in the final. Poor ref nearly had a heart attack when he realized what he'd done. It has been a long week and a long day today....we can all get a bit absent minded, but they need some practice that's for sure.

Pardon my waffling...adrenaline still pumping!!!
 
Cornerman said:
The score was 5-5. Bustamante dogs the runout and ties up his ball. Manalo plays safe. Busta knocks one of Manalo's balls up table, leaving only the tied up balls and the 8-ball down table, with all of Manalo's balls up table.

Manalo plays this safe, instead of separating the balls:

START(
%AE1F3%Bq6S8%CG8V3%DR4S8%EN4Q4%He8O9%Kq9U0%PE8H7%UE1H0%VE5H3
%WD0F9%XD5G1%YD4F1%ZC6F3%[E8E6%\E7E7
)END

The referee doesn't realize what Manalo was doing, and couldn't tell if it was a good hit. Folks, it was a good hit by a mile, but the cueball grazed the one ball on the way in, hit the cushion, and immediately hit the one ball again. I think the ref. didn't realize what Manalo was doing.

Bustamante points to the crowd when someone says, "Foul." The referee asks the crowd, and three people say it was. SCREW THAT!!!! It was a good hit, and the replays will show it.

In the meantime, Busta take ball in hand and cans this bank:

START(
%Bq6S8%CG8V3%DR4S8%EN4Q4%He8O9%Kq9U0%Pl2O8%UE8Z0%Vr6U1%W^0K8
%Xk7Z9%Yl6Z4%Zo8T8%[p0T5%\l2P4
)END

to win the game, and proceeds to run out the set.

Manalo may not make the finals if Busta wins again.

Fred <~~~ not happy
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Thats the most bizzare thing I ever heard!
If the ref didnt see it - he didnt see it! End of story. I dont think M is at fault here because any average 8ball player would be able to tell what shot M was going to play just by where he was standing. ie, B is the pot and C is the safety.
START(
%AE1F3%Bq6S8%CG8V3%DR4S8%EN4Q4%He8O9%Kq9U0%PE8H7%Qs3[3%RF7Z3
%SU9V8%UE1H0%VE5H3%WD0F9%XD5G1%YD4F1%ZC6F3%[E8E6%\E7E7%]E9K3
%^G2X3%_G4J4%`L7O4%aU4V7
)END

Anyway, why didnt he just ask Marlon if it was a foul?

Gabber.............amazing:eek:
 
bruin70 said:
i have not seen that to be always the case. only the shooter knows when he is going to do something particularly delicate.

anyway, live and learn. it's done.
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I said a GOOD referee, not some guy they pulled out of an amateur pool league.
 
PoolBum said:
Yeah, that one bugged me too. Get in there Jay and show 'em how to ref!
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It's a shame to have an otherwise great event spoiled by poor officiating and an inept scoring system (GFI). You should know beforehand that in a Round Robin field of players, there will be ties. This is maybe the worst tiebreaking system they could have devised. A simple TGW (total games won) would have worked quite well.
Hopefully the television will be done well. The only good TV I've seen to date has been SkySports coverage of the WPV. ESPN has been butchering pool for years.
 
jay helfert said:
It's a shame to have an otherwise great event spoiled by poor officiating and an inept scoring system (GFI). You should know beforehand that in a Round Robin field of players, there will be ties. This is maybe the worst tiebreaking system they could have devised. A simple TGW (total games won) would have worked quite well.
Hopefully the television will be done well. The only good TV I've seen to date has been SkySports coverage of the WPV. ESPN has been butchering pool for years.
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WPC or World Pool Championships
 
Cornerman said:
Yes he protested. And that tells me without any doubt, regardless of tape review, that he did inded brush the ball before the cueball contacted the cushion. The first people that said "foul" were on the wrong side of the one-ball to see the brush.

Fred
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Your right. I was on the other side of the table. It looked like a foul from where I sat. However, he fouled eariler in the same game off that 10/7 cluster and nobody said anything. He hit the 7 ball first. That was right in front of me. The hit looked weird and the 7 traveled to the other end of the table and the 10 barely made it to the pocket. I asked Grady about it and he saw it too. I think the pool gods just evened things out.
 
according to the azb story,,,,the replay showed the ref to be right ! so much for that!

all this to-do about nothing.

but the issue about refs and protocal should still be of concern.
 
Just to let you know (no, I wasn't the one who made the call) but I was in the area...the ref called the foul first. While approaching the table...he said it only loud enough that Manalo could hear him. That's when Manalo got upset and said it wasn't a foul. Manalo turned around to the crowd and said "Was it a foul?" People in the stands started calling out that it was a foul and the ref then handed the cueball to Bustamante...that's how this incorrect rumor started.

Shortly after the match they reviewed the tape with Manalo and it clearly revealed that it was in fact a foul. Manalo tried to go to the rail first, hit the ball and then contact the rail again. However, after contacting the ball...nothing ever got to a rail again.

FYI, referees were not actively presiding over the matches. For the most part we were not appraching the table unless called in. We were only to approach the table if we saw an obvious foul. The ref was ten feet away and still got the call right.

As for him being an amateur referee...that's incorrect. He has a multitude of professional matches under his belt. If I sound defensive...it's because he did his job and got the call right. It's only people that couldn't hear or see everything that was going on that this rumor started.
 
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poolboy17 said:
Just to let you know (no, I wasn't the one who made the call) but I was in the area...the ref called the foul first. While approaching the table...he said it only loud enough that Manalo could hear him. That's when Manalo got upset and said it wasn't a foul. Manalo turned around to the crowd and said "Was it a foul?" People in the stands started calling out that it was a foul and the ref then handed the cueball to Bustamante...that's how this incorrect rumor started.

.
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Sorry everyone. I would have bet dollars to donuts that I was clearly correct, but the fact is that I was dead wrong.

Fred <~~~ wrong again
 
QUOTE=Cornerman]Sorry everyone. I would have bet dollars to donuts that I was clearly correct, but the fact is that I was dead wrong.

Fred <~~~ wrong again[/QUOTE]

What convinced you that you were wrong? Manalo was closest to the ball- the ref was 10ft away, as were the spectators and he said it was good.
The poster above is obviously one of the refs so his account could be biased.[ he went from 'I' to 'we'.]

Look where the ref is. IPT-MnM 001_0001.jpg[

Gabber
 
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Gabber said:
QUOTE=Cornerman]Sorry everyone. I would have bet dollars to donuts that I was clearly correct, but the fact is that I was dead wrong.

Fred <~~~ wrong again
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What convinced you that you were wrong? Manalo was closest to the ball- the ref was 10ft away, as were the spectators and he said it was good.
The poster above is obviously one of the refs so his account could be biased.[ he went from 'I' to 'we'.]

Look where the ref is.View attachment 12194[

Gabber[/QUOTE]

I was one of the refs...I didn't exactly try to hide it...look at my sig. As I said in my post though...they showed Manolo the video replay and he saw that it was a foul. I was right there...I heard several spectators shout out that it was a foul.

If you need further proof...look at the article on the front of the A to Z site where the writer said they looked at the video replay and it was shown to be a foul. There is no longer any doubt about it. I can see how someone only saw or heard part of what happened might get the wrong impression. I wasn't trying to make anyone look bad...just trying to clarify an obviously confused situation.
 
I reviewed the tape and can't believe how much speculation has been written here by people who weren't even there to see the incident.

The foul was called very soon after the attempt. When Manalo disagreed it was he who asked the crowd. Furthermore, Mr. Manalo is experienced enough to know that if you truly dispute the call, you stop play and call over an IPT official to further dispute the call. The fact that he didn't do that and waited until after the match was over and the scorecard signed means that it doesn't matter at all whether or not it was a foul. By the way, it was a foul.

And I am really disappointed in some of the comments I have heard about the referees' professionalism. There were hundreds and hundreds of hours of pool played, in Round Robin format, and over five days. There were six referees working 12 hour days, every day and... There was ONE disputed call and the referee happened to make the right call. Get over it folks.
Deno Andrews
 
I reviewed the tape
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So you werent even there! Do you have a close up of the shot? If you dont ,I,m not sure how you can be more sure than Marlon.
IIf you are so sure, it would be SO easy for you to put a slo-mo clip of the shot in question on the IPT site and if its conclusive, that would quell the rumours.
If you have the evidence, lets see it .

What about the ref who raked the balls when Ef still had to pot the 8? A poster here claims the balls were put back in the wrong position- despite the means to replace the balls EXACTLY as they were?
Any comment on that?


Gabber..............
 
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