Mandrels or handsanding?

danieldakota53

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you consider the best way to make shafts and butts fit best? I am sure many are set on mandrels due to sizes, but what do the majority think is the best and possibly the easiest way to get the truest fit? Many speak or preach about tolerances being so exact, but is it truly necessary when dealing with wood and the materials used in joints? > Thoughts?
 

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
If you want a standard for your joint size, Mandrels are a good way to accomplish it but certainly not the only way.

I use mandrels and if a customer wants a shaft, I can make one and ship it knowing it will fit without having the butt in the shop.

Having a joint size as a repeatable standard in carbide is a very good thing for the CM.

JMO,

Rick
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I not only use my carbide sanding mandrels for size. I also use them to insure concentricity .
If you just screw an unfinished shaft on an unfinished butt and sand the joint to match, the pin can be off center and you will never know. If someday, you reface the shaft of butt the joint may not align and you will feel edges on 2 sides...

Kim
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If the only thing you care about is how the joint feels when the cue is screwed together, then sanding the butt and shaft screwed together without mandrels will give some of the best results. But if you want an exact joint size everytime in non-stainless joints and you want the pin and insert to be concentric, then mandrels are one of the easiest ways to do it.

You and your customers can decide whether a perfect feeling fit when the cue is new is most important, which is accomplished by sanding without mandrels. I will point out as the wood compresses over time that a non concentric joint may no longer feel smooth, but develop a very noticable lip.

Or is staying concentric with a slight rounded lip for the life of the cue more important, which is accomplished with carbide mandrels. This also allows extra shafts to be built without having to send the cue in. I vote for the latter.
 
Last edited:

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the runout at the Joint Collars PRIOR to drilling and boring? Are you able to Chuck up a piece of stock, turn it round, flip it in the Chuck and still get a tight runout? If not, your Chuck may may be the problem.

What Chuck are you using? Many factory 3 Jaw chucks should be used as Boat Anchors and never for accuracy, (Four jaws are the best but they take time.) I have no idea what you use. I use no Chuck at all for Center Pin alignment, I make my own Collets that fit my Morse Taper # 5 of my Spindle. My Collets are 3" long and have no slit in the side, they are solid. My Spindle would be measured in the 10,000ths of an inch when it comes to runout, it's that perfect.

I go from a perfect Spindle to Collet to Cue. Many go from Spindle to Chuck to Collet to Cue, every step can only take away from perfection and never lean towards it.

Understand, I use a full size lathe and things are done differently on the smaller Lathes, either of which can make perfect Cues if and when properly utilized.

My assessment is that your a step away from the perfect Joint, don't sand it, fix it at the source.
 

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
What is the runout at the Joint Collars PRIOR to drilling and boring? Are you able to Chuck up a piece of stock, turn it round, flip it in the Chuck and still get a tight runout? If not, your Chuck may may be the problem.

What Chuck are you using? Many factory 3 Jaw chucks should be used as Boat Anchors and never for accuracy, (Four jaws are the best but they take time.) I have no idea what you use. I use no Chuck at all for Center Pin alignment, I make my own Collets that fit my Morse Taper # 5 of my Spindle. My Collets are 3" long and have no slit in the side, they are solid. My Spindle would be measured in the 10,000ths of an inch when it comes to runout, it's that perfect.

I go from a perfect Spindle to Collet to Cue. Many go from Spindle to Chuck to Collet to Cue, every step can only take away from perfection and never lean towards it.

Understand, I use a full size lathe and things are done differently on the smaller Lathes, either of which can make perfect Cues if and when properly utilized.

My assessment is that your a step away from the perfect Joint, don't sand it, fix it at the source.

CD,

I agree with your thinking process as you are eliminateing some cumulative error. I also make my precision collets with no slit.

I like to use a 6 jaw true set chuck and keep it calibrated concerning reference to zero in ten thousands using a ground dowel pin when calabrating it. Using the chuck I shim the outside of the collet with zig zag paper to dial in zero the pin install.

The joint still needs to be coated with a substrate and a finish and that is where the mandrels do their duty. Accurate machining then coating to a referenced carbide mandrel. I like to sand my epoxy substrate to the mandrel sizing and then spray 3 light coats of clear or about .002 per side bringing the diameter larger about .004 total. At the end of the day the concentricity is very tidy.

JMO,

Rick
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
1" ID bearing plus collet work a lot better than most chucks.
Never block sand.
Think of the cue if it needs to be re-pinned later.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CD,

I agree with your thinking process as you are eliminateing some cumulative error. I also make my precision collets with no slit.

I like to use a 6 jaw true set chuck and keep it calibrated concerning reference to zero in ten thousands using a ground dowel pin when calabrating it. Using the chuck I shim the outside of the collet with zig zag paper to dial in zero the pin install.

The joint still needs to be coated with a substrate and a finish and that is where the mandrels do their duty. Accurate machining then coating to a referenced carbide mandrel. I like to sand my epoxy substrate to the mandrel sizing and then spray 3 light coats of clear or about .002 per side bringing the diameter larger about .004 total. At the end of the day the concentricity is very tidy.

JMO,

Rick

Great minds think alike, I use the same 6 Jaw with the 4 micro adjusters and I agree with everything else your saying. Very nice, Thanks.
 
Top