rackmsuckr said:
No, he's banking on Tang qualifying for the IPT. The marketing of the players will come after the tour is successful and they become well known to the public. IF that happens.
vagabond said:I am surprised that you still remember the services provided to you by my agency.he,hee,heee
I resemble that remark.
FYI: The September issue of Billiards Digest has two very interesting articles on Mark Trainer and his dealings with the IPT players.
The REAL question is to whom the IPT will be signing over prize cheques.
To the players, the backers, or both?
Irrespective of the contract details, the true power goes to the one who has
the cheque.
To the players, the backers, or both?
Irrespective of the contract details, the true power goes to the one who has
the cheque.
NYC cue dude
Banned
the checks are going to mark trainors company, not the players. I know this for a FACT.
rg
rg
if that is true, then he's basically controlling all their funds.
HUGE HUGE no no for the players imo
HUGE HUGE no no for the players imo
Furthermore, I would think that the prize money being offered by the IPT would be seen by players as a reason NOT to get into these types of arrangements.
I can't understand why some of the world's top pros would even consider cutting someone in on their action.
Look at the cash some of them have made from only 2-3 tourneys already,
Archer 75k, Bustamante 142k, Manalo 165k, Orcullo 146k, Morris 167k, Soquet 94k, Alex P 65k, etc.....
Then you have the "guaranteed" 100k for 2007, ok, so maybe 60-70k after
expenses, for EVERYONE on the tour, not a bad living imo.
This Trainer character must have one hell of a great sales pitch.
How many players outside Efren have made over 100k in prize winnings a year playing pool? If the IPT is telling the truth, then at least 150 players will make at least 100k.
Screw Trainer and his shady deals.
I can't understand why some of the world's top pros would even consider cutting someone in on their action.
Look at the cash some of them have made from only 2-3 tourneys already,
Archer 75k, Bustamante 142k, Manalo 165k, Orcullo 146k, Morris 167k, Soquet 94k, Alex P 65k, etc.....
Then you have the "guaranteed" 100k for 2007, ok, so maybe 60-70k after
expenses, for EVERYONE on the tour, not a bad living imo.
This Trainer character must have one hell of a great sales pitch.
How many players outside Efren have made over 100k in prize winnings a year playing pool? If the IPT is telling the truth, then at least 150 players will make at least 100k.
Screw Trainer and his shady deals.
NYC cue dude
Banned
My unerstanding for the vegas event was that the checks were delivered to trainor immediately after the event, and then the money was WIRED to the players. I think there was very little waiting time.
I was told by one of the signed players that it is in the contract that gives a release to the ipt to give the checks to trainor on thier behalf.
I have no word yet on if trainor has received any checks for "his" players in the reno event.
As i stated before, the wholde mark trainor thing is a no no for the players. It was the first REAL red flag raised way back in May. Before trainor showed on the scene, there was only speculation both good and bad about the ipt. After it surfaced that he was, imo, scamming the players, and had kt's blessing (he told me to my face that he had no problems with it and that "it sounds like a good deal for the players") it was the first concrete evidence for concern.
Someone gave a great comment about trainor's involvemnt with the ipt. If in fact he is in "bed" with kt on this, and that after all these qualifiers take place, kt has no real intentions of holding anymore ipt events (remember that the 2007 schedule is now pushed back to june/july), we will have a better indication if trainor continues paying his monthly stipends to all the players come january and february.
It would make sense to me that if the ipt is failing, and trainor "knows" it, why would he continue to invest in players with no future of a tour. Time will tell.
Also curious to know if those contracts have a clause voiding the contracts if the ipt is SOLD?
rg
I was told by one of the signed players that it is in the contract that gives a release to the ipt to give the checks to trainor on thier behalf.
I have no word yet on if trainor has received any checks for "his" players in the reno event.
As i stated before, the wholde mark trainor thing is a no no for the players. It was the first REAL red flag raised way back in May. Before trainor showed on the scene, there was only speculation both good and bad about the ipt. After it surfaced that he was, imo, scamming the players, and had kt's blessing (he told me to my face that he had no problems with it and that "it sounds like a good deal for the players") it was the first concrete evidence for concern.
Someone gave a great comment about trainor's involvemnt with the ipt. If in fact he is in "bed" with kt on this, and that after all these qualifiers take place, kt has no real intentions of holding anymore ipt events (remember that the 2007 schedule is now pushed back to june/july), we will have a better indication if trainor continues paying his monthly stipends to all the players come january and february.
It would make sense to me that if the ipt is failing, and trainor "knows" it, why would he continue to invest in players with no future of a tour. Time will tell.
Also curious to know if those contracts have a clause voiding the contracts if the ipt is SOLD?
rg
JAM said:
Plus Marks committment is a "good sign" with those that doubt KT express.
For the members here who know pros involved in these deals, particularly foreign players, please let them know that if the funds go directly to Trainer, he can do ANYTHING he wants with them, ANYTHING.
Unfortunately, the reality of our legal system places the onus on the player to attempt recovery of any monies owing.
At the end of the day, I don't have a huge issue with these deals, even if there is malice on the part of the agent. Why? At day's end, you are responsible for what you sign, and the path your greed takes you.
You know what they say about fooling an honest man...
Having said that, players must, must, must, get their cheques first. ANY deal, ANY deal, that precludes that should be avoided like the plague.
Unfortunately, the reality of our legal system places the onus on the player to attempt recovery of any monies owing.
At the end of the day, I don't have a huge issue with these deals, even if there is malice on the part of the agent. Why? At day's end, you are responsible for what you sign, and the path your greed takes you.
You know what they say about fooling an honest man...
Having said that, players must, must, must, get their cheques first. ANY deal, ANY deal, that precludes that should be avoided like the plague.
phoebe choy said:Just wanted to add,
I am not dogging Mark. But, he has to realize how his timing to all of a sudden want to sign pool players up under management is suspicious. AND, pool players in general have been screwed over and over again with people trying to get a piece of the pie without all the sweat, tears, fustrations, ups and downs, of actually BEING a pool player, and living the life.
In my last post, if anyone catched on to the ending I was making reference to the movie Jerry Mcguire......jus in fun lol
Phoebe, and the opposite can hold true also. MT took a long hard look the the current state of affairs and realized it could be a golden opportunity to get in on the ground floor, much like KT did by putting this all together, it'll be interesting to see where we're at in 12 months.
Some quick rough math,
4k a month and 50% figures have been tossed around, so if a player earns 100k next year, the IPT witholds 30% for taxes, player nets 70k, after repayment of the 48k loan they're left with 22k, and half of that for Trainer leaves them with 11k. THIS IS BEST CASE SCENARIO assuming the prize money cut is deducted after repayment of the loan.
When you add the 48k "loan" the worst players on the tour will have pocketed 59k.
Without the deal they would pocket 70k
Trainer makes a profit of 11k MINIMUM per player(minus interest on the loan), multiply that by 10 or 20 players and he's laughing.
Now using the above scenario, if Trainer demands 50% PLUS the loan then the player would owe half of the 70k PLUS the 48k which puts the player owing Trainer 13k at year's end.
Endorsement promises are a joke and should not even be considered.
4k a month and 50% figures have been tossed around, so if a player earns 100k next year, the IPT witholds 30% for taxes, player nets 70k, after repayment of the 48k loan they're left with 22k, and half of that for Trainer leaves them with 11k. THIS IS BEST CASE SCENARIO assuming the prize money cut is deducted after repayment of the loan.
When you add the 48k "loan" the worst players on the tour will have pocketed 59k.
Without the deal they would pocket 70k
Trainer makes a profit of 11k MINIMUM per player(minus interest on the loan), multiply that by 10 or 20 players and he's laughing.
Now using the above scenario, if Trainer demands 50% PLUS the loan then the player would owe half of the 70k PLUS the 48k which puts the player owing Trainer 13k at year's end.
Endorsement promises are a joke and should not even be considered.
smashmouth said:
From what I've heard, I probably wouldn't have signed the contract if I was a pro that had the money to go it alone.
However, some of the players might have been able to quit their job because of the $4,000/month and put in extra time practicing and that might have been the difference between them getting knocked out in round 1 or in round 3.
Also, if the contract is only for three to five years and the IPT continues to be a going concern after the contract expires a young player who signs now because they need the money will be able to make a better economic choice later.
We also don't know if the monthly advance is really a loan or an advance on future earnings which only has to be paid back if the earnings materialize. In the second scenario MT is taking the risk and could be out the advance money.
Again, regardless of any contract details, if Trainer is getting paid first, then he controls the power.
It all begins with that.
It all begins with that.
smashmouth said:
I agree with you there. I would have expected the cheque to go to the player.
How do pro team sports work that out? I know that agents have to register with the pro league so they might just cut two cheques each payday, one to the player and a percentage to the agent.
this is the most disgusting thing i've ever read in billiards history.....I don't even know what to say....i feel bad for whoever got suckered into these contracts & hopefully no one gets screwed, I wonder who else signed with this guy & if it's worth it for them or not.....you mentioned basavich & ginky earlier having to signed....good friends & great personalities on tour, it would be such a shame if these & the other players got raped of their prize money...although as a player myself the only benefit i see of this whole case scenario is that they pay for the room & board, & MT & KT they all know that its an eye catcher to say here's money for you to spend, oh & you're hotel & travel expense is paid for as well.....I'd love someone to say that to me...LOL
its just all a matter of...can you pay back the mob uhh i mean KT & or MT whoever it is, and if you can't what will happen as a result....MT must have enough players signed up for him to not worry about if a player can't pay back....People do need to make money some how, this guy just seems like a snake, slithering into the world of pool......go away MT....Is this what i have to look forward to when getting involved on a serious level....I think i'll stay safe with the other tourneys......this guy would push me away....see ya later........but again its just my opinion...thats all..
its just all a matter of...can you pay back the mob uhh i mean KT & or MT whoever it is, and if you can't what will happen as a result....MT must have enough players signed up for him to not worry about if a player can't pay back....People do need to make money some how, this guy just seems like a snake, slithering into the world of pool......go away MT....Is this what i have to look forward to when getting involved on a serious level....I think i'll stay safe with the other tourneys......this guy would push me away....see ya later........but again its just my opinion...thats all..
And I thought the IPT was going to help eliminate crap like this, then you hear about KT saying "it's a great opportunity for the players..."
BIG SHINY RED FLAG, HELLO!!!!!!
Exactly how much has KT invested into this business? It's starting to sound like any and all working capital is based on qualification fees alone.
BIG SHINY RED FLAG, HELLO!!!!!!
Exactly how much has KT invested into this business? It's starting to sound like any and all working capital is based on qualification fees alone.