they're working with other promoters as long as it's 9-ball. that's the thing. there are four other disciplines, one of which has a growing tour
Matchroom dumps WPA!
- Thread starter mista335
- Start date
they're working with other promoters as long as it's 9-ball. that's the thing. there are four other disciplines, one of which has a growing tour
WPA tried to get Predator and Matchroom to work together to avoid calendar conflicts. Granted conflicts were inevitable and WPA relaxed it to avoid continental conflicts. I wonder if we will see less cooperation due to this. And if Matchroom schedules over a sanctioned Predator event, I wonder if WPA will penalize players that join the Matchroom event. This could get weird.
The top 16 players in the world deserve to be millionaires, only Matchroom can make that happen.
pagaspoling
Member
First of all I'm really happy for the development of pro pool after the pandemic. It seems like theres a lot going in a good direction. This news make me a bit nervous though. Theres a risk that this will turn in to an ugly conflict where the sport will suffer from the rifts created by different organisations that tries to take control of the sport. Pool is a really big sport and for the first time since the 90s it seems like the promotors realize this. Our problem has always been the incredible lack of organisation and cooperation between the promotors and the WPA.
I think that what MR is trying is really interesting for the sport. I think what they're aiming for is something like the World Snooker Tour where they control the professional sport and is where all the players want to play. The problem is that pool is way bigger than snooker and there is a need for smaller more local tours in order to meet the demand from players wanting to play part or full time. If MR gets greedy and tries to stop players from playing other tours or schedule competitions the same dates as other events all the progress could quickly be lost again. MR cant be the only tour but I think and hope that they know that.
WPA is dead. I don't really think there is any other way to see it. During my 17 years in this sport I don't think WPA has done a single good thing to the sport. They stopped countless of events that tried to become World Championships by having way to high fees in order to get the categorization as WC. They never did anything for the players and thus has no loyalty from them. If they try to ban players I think most of them don't care and will move to MR rankings. They have nothing to say in most of the American events, Fedor playing events this year proves that. The only banning that can result in a bad situation for the players is in Europe. The work from the EPBF has always been the best of the members in the WPA and thats apparent when you see last years result from the big events. If WPA withdraws the sanction from MR a lot of European players will be in a tough spot.
The other cue sports, carom and snooker, seems to have good solutions. World Snooker has no competition and pays a lot of players decent money and a few really good. The UMB in carom did have some competition from PBA in Korea but most of the players stayed and are loyal to the World Cup and get decent money from their sport. Pool thats a bigger sport than both and probably needs to have a solution that fits more players in multiple tours. The WPA stepping back would be a step forward to achieve that. I think we should look at golf and how the big tours and the Official World Golf Ranking works..
I think that what MR is trying is really interesting for the sport. I think what they're aiming for is something like the World Snooker Tour where they control the professional sport and is where all the players want to play. The problem is that pool is way bigger than snooker and there is a need for smaller more local tours in order to meet the demand from players wanting to play part or full time. If MR gets greedy and tries to stop players from playing other tours or schedule competitions the same dates as other events all the progress could quickly be lost again. MR cant be the only tour but I think and hope that they know that.
WPA is dead. I don't really think there is any other way to see it. During my 17 years in this sport I don't think WPA has done a single good thing to the sport. They stopped countless of events that tried to become World Championships by having way to high fees in order to get the categorization as WC. They never did anything for the players and thus has no loyalty from them. If they try to ban players I think most of them don't care and will move to MR rankings. They have nothing to say in most of the American events, Fedor playing events this year proves that. The only banning that can result in a bad situation for the players is in Europe. The work from the EPBF has always been the best of the members in the WPA and thats apparent when you see last years result from the big events. If WPA withdraws the sanction from MR a lot of European players will be in a tough spot.
The other cue sports, carom and snooker, seems to have good solutions. World Snooker has no competition and pays a lot of players decent money and a few really good. The UMB in carom did have some competition from PBA in Korea but most of the players stayed and are loyal to the World Cup and get decent money from their sport. Pool thats a bigger sport than both and probably needs to have a solution that fits more players in multiple tours. The WPA stepping back would be a step forward to achieve that. I think we should look at golf and how the big tours and the Official World Golf Ranking works..
A compromise would be rankings for different disciplines. It’s far too messy to have different disciplines and formats smushed together, especially if you are trying to sell a tour and format to the general public. The WST doesn’t incorporate the English Billiard results into their rankings either. They are after all just different disciplines on an English table.
That would take a while. This thread gives a taste of what they're about though.
The international governing body of pool, the WPA, does a ranking list based on player performances in all the events that warrant inclusion based on the prize funds levels and strength of competition etc no matter who the promoters are. Matchroom does their own internal rankings list based only on Matchroom produced events and those from their affiliates who have agreed to allow Matchroom to have the ultimate say on things and which excludes any events outside of that.
Matchroom has just told the WPA that they must stop doing their own independent list that will include any event regardless of promoter and instead let Matchroom make their Matchroom only events rankings list the new official WPA rankings list.
Now why would Matchroom would be so insistent on taking over the independent WPA's official 9 ball ranking list and replacing it with their own? It is because it would effectively give them the power to completely control all of 9 ball and prevent any competition. They would be able to easily strong arm any other promoters into having to do whatever Matchroom wants, otherwise Matchroom would simply not allow their event to count towards the official rankings which would generally effectively kill off that event. It would also give Matchroom the ability to control the players because if Matchroom didn't like what a player was doing or what events they were playing they could simply remove that player from the official rankings list.
In short Matchroom is attempting to secure the power that would give them total control over the sport and the players and would allow them to be able to keep anybody else from being able to compete against them.
Yeah, that wasn't right. The way he was treated. Easily top of the money list.
Just unfortunate, he didn't get the chances he deserved!
That's a bit of a leap. It just as easily could be that Matchroom doesn't think they need the WPA, and/or they don't see what value the WPA is adding all while taking their cut.
CoreyD
Baller, Shot Caller
Emily Frazier's quotes in Billiards Digest. I'm guessing these were from much earlier this year as the event schedule does not match what happened this year (i.e. European Open). It's interesting how quickly they've backed away from these statements.
What does the future of the WPA look like relative to the future of the Matchroom 9-ball tour?
We certainly don't want to be involved with federations and player standings, etc. Also, in creating transparency for things like the invitational events and Mosconi Cup, there needs to be that independent structure overseeing things. We hope that as this grows, and in three years' time we've doubled the calendar and doubled the prize money, the WPA will grow stronger as well through sanctioning. We want to make sure going forward that there are press releases on their web site and more social media activity. To do all that we have to work together. I've set up the right communications between my team and the WPA's team to ensure that things like that are actually going to happen moving forward.
Do you see Matchroom playing a role in the restructuring of the WPA to the point that it has the capabilities and funding and staff to do all those things, like you did with World Snooker and the WPBSA?
The sport needs the WPA. I don't know if we want to be part of a restructuring. But anything that would help the game evolve, we would want to be involved within that change. We don't want to be the governing body, but we want to help ensure that there is a good governing body in place. The good thing about our events now, like the World Pool Masters and the World Cup of Pool, is that they are set up with entry requirements, so we've now given the WPA allocations for the spots. They share those with the member federations. Now, all of a sudden, that gives more structure for everyone instead of us just handing out invitations and having players worry about how people are selected. I don't really know where it's all going to go. Right now, we're just staying in communication and seeing what can be done. We're just starting to implement this structure in our events and rankings now, so to get involved in some kind of restructuring of the WPA would be getting ahead of ourselves. The movement of the sport will naturally help or force the WPA to restructure to be more effective and keep up with the sport.
Will promoters that want to hitch their events onto the ranking bandwagon be required to be WPA sanctioned?
Yes, as of 2023. It's too last-minute to enforce that in 2022. There are still so many unknowns, so we didn't want to set up too many hurdles for the promoters. And Ian [Anderson] and the WPA understood that.
What does the future of the WPA look like relative to the future of the Matchroom 9-ball tour?
We certainly don't want to be involved with federations and player standings, etc. Also, in creating transparency for things like the invitational events and Mosconi Cup, there needs to be that independent structure overseeing things. We hope that as this grows, and in three years' time we've doubled the calendar and doubled the prize money, the WPA will grow stronger as well through sanctioning. We want to make sure going forward that there are press releases on their web site and more social media activity. To do all that we have to work together. I've set up the right communications between my team and the WPA's team to ensure that things like that are actually going to happen moving forward.
Do you see Matchroom playing a role in the restructuring of the WPA to the point that it has the capabilities and funding and staff to do all those things, like you did with World Snooker and the WPBSA?
The sport needs the WPA. I don't know if we want to be part of a restructuring. But anything that would help the game evolve, we would want to be involved within that change. We don't want to be the governing body, but we want to help ensure that there is a good governing body in place. The good thing about our events now, like the World Pool Masters and the World Cup of Pool, is that they are set up with entry requirements, so we've now given the WPA allocations for the spots. They share those with the member federations. Now, all of a sudden, that gives more structure for everyone instead of us just handing out invitations and having players worry about how people are selected. I don't really know where it's all going to go. Right now, we're just staying in communication and seeing what can be done. We're just starting to implement this structure in our events and rankings now, so to get involved in some kind of restructuring of the WPA would be getting ahead of ourselves. The movement of the sport will naturally help or force the WPA to restructure to be more effective and keep up with the sport.
Will promoters that want to hitch their events onto the ranking bandwagon be required to be WPA sanctioned?
Yes, as of 2023. It's too last-minute to enforce that in 2022. There are still so many unknowns, so we didn't want to set up too many hurdles for the promoters. And Ian [Anderson] and the WPA understood that.
Attachments
Except that Barry Hearn very specifically said himself, in several interviews a couple of days ago, that the reason he is breaking ties with the WPA is because he wants them to use Matchroom's ranking list as their official WPA 9 ball ranking list instead of continuing to not have a 9 ball only ranking list or being able to independently create their own if/when they choose. He gave them the ultimatum to either agree to his demands to effectively let him run that WPA ranking list, or he would cut ties with them as much as possible. They rightly found this to be a quite unreasonable demand for all the obvious reasons and refused, and here we are.
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Okay fair enough - I stand corrected. I admittedly haven't been following this that closely.
Don't know which Barry Hearn you are listening to but the one in the video I posted Barry Hearn said that they wanted the WPA to recognise the Matchroom 9 ball rankings as the official WPA 9 ball rankings.
He went on to say that there isn't another one and they are not trying to steal anything that exists already. He said there is an overall ranking system for all the various disciplines which doesn't interfere with us.
The WPA does not have a specific 9 Ball ranking system.
the WPA ranking is multi discipline:
Rankings
wpapool.com
some months ago it had mika immonen as world number 2, now he's number 10. it is flawed, obviously, and a prize money ranking system does make more sense. what doesn't make sense is severing the relationship with the WPA because of it.
Thanks for the correction, post has been corrected. No idea why I typed it like that, probably because I was thinking about Matchroom's 9 ball ranking list at the time.
Who needs WPA?
Matchroom owns US pool for peanuts....and now they'll own the pool world.
None of this is an accident folks.
Everything by design.
And people wonder why pool goes nowhere....it's because everyone in pool is ready to step over your dead body to make a buck including players, competing rooms, competing tournament directors, competing leagues and competing production companies.
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Agreed. The WPA has had years (over a decade actually) to grow the sport. As far as I can see, they've been practically invisible. There is no doubt Matchroom has MADE themselves visible. Matchroom is telling them It's time to shit or get off the pot.
I don't agree with or like everything Matchroom does. I just weigh the good with the bad.
Astrolabus
Member
Barry did save snooker from the dire slump it was in, I didn’t like everything he did (especially messing with the UK championship format), but I can’t deny he turned the game around with more prize money, more tournaments and proper professional management. He also turned the darts into a multi-million pound game, and his son Eddie shook up the world of boxing. None of this would have happened without Barry and his team.
If he says Matchroom can make pool a multi-million dollar game with a proper professional tour, he has a proven track record, and I don’t doubt he can do it.
Then what have the WPA done? As far as I can tell their biggest achievement was taking the crown jewel of pool, the world 9-ball and having it played in a warehouse somewhere in the middle-east. If it wasn’t for Matchroom then it seems to me the pool calendar would be vastly diminished.
I‘ve only followed 9-ball for the past couple of years, but it’s an entertaining watch. It would be great to see these players playing for proper money, the kind of money in snooker and darts.
If he says Matchroom can make pool a multi-million dollar game with a proper professional tour, he has a proven track record, and I don’t doubt he can do it.
Then what have the WPA done? As far as I can tell their biggest achievement was taking the crown jewel of pool, the world 9-ball and having it played in a warehouse somewhere in the middle-east. If it wasn’t for Matchroom then it seems to me the pool calendar would be vastly diminished.
I‘ve only followed 9-ball for the past couple of years, but it’s an entertaining watch. It would be great to see these players playing for proper money, the kind of money in snooker and darts.
Are we talking Women’s or World Pool Association? I’m out of the loop.
The women's organization is the WPBA. The WPA is the World Pool-Billiard Association.
telinoz
Registered
That about sums it up.