# Maximum draw/follow/side

#### WesleyW

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm practicing with some maximum english. Sometimes I got some miscueing. When drawing the CB, I would shovel it instead. So, I'm wondering how much english can you apply on a cueball.

Beneath I've add a picture, can you say where you can hit without miscueing. Will the 5-line be the maximum, or can you hit even more at the edge of the CB?

I usually try to hit the place between the 5-line and the red-line, but miscue often. Hitting the 5-line is just right to me. But shall I practice to aim more at the edge?

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#### randyg

##### www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
Check your stroke. If your elbow drops a little, the cue tip rises.....SPF=randyg

#### crappoolguy

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can hit closer to the red line than the 5, barely touching it.

#### berlowmj

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I need clarification. Many books I read emphasize that the cue be "level" which I interpret to mean parallel to the table. Conforming to this advice on most shots is helpful & appears feasible.

However, this seems physically impossible if I am hitting the CB in the vicinity of the red line. I feel compelled to raise my elbow if I want to draw 1/2 the length of the table or greater. Miscuing is only a problem if I neglect to chalk the cue.

#### Jal

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WesleyW said:
I'm practicing with some maximum english. Sometimes I got some miscueing. When drawing the CB, I would shovel it instead. So, I'm wondering how much english can you apply on a cueball.

Beneath I've add a picture, can you say where you can hit without miscueing. Will the 5-line be the maximum, or can you hit even more at the edge of the CB?

I usually try to hit the place between the 5-line and the red-line, but miscue often. Hitting the 5-line is just right to me. But shall I practice to aim more at the edge?

The miscue limit is typically taken to be one-half the radius of the cueball (1/2 R). This is where the tip actually makes contact with the cueball, as opposed to where the center of the shaft is pointing. You can sometimes hit farther out than this, but you will miscue quite a bit.

The difference between where the tip actually contacts the cueball, and where the center of the shaft is pointing, depends on the curvature of the tip. The flatter the curvature (ie, quarter shaped versus dime shaped), the more of a difference there is.

Hope that helps.

Jim

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Jal said:
The miscue limit is typically taken to be one-half the radius of the cueball (1/2 R).

I believe that's about right. That's somewhere around the "3" or "4" line, not the "5" line and definitely not the red line. On a striped Centennial ball it's just about at the edge of the stripe.

This is where the tip actually makes contact with the cueball, as opposed to where the center of the shaft is pointing.

Yes, and many players think they're hitting farther from center than they actually are because of this difference. I don't think actual contact can be consistently made outside the "3" or "4" line without miscueing, much less outside the "5" line as some claim.

To verify where you hit, clean the cue ball first and then look for the chalk mark afterwards.

pj
chgo

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
crappoolguy said:
I can hit closer to the red line than the 5, barely touching it.
I'd bet money all day you can't.

pj
chgo

#### crappoolguy

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
I'd bet money all day you can't.

pj
chgo

I wouldn't bet money but I think I could. I might get one of those balls to see.

#### renard

##### Play in these conditions?
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
I'd bet money all day you can't.

pj
chgo

I'll back Patrick on this wager. The reason is the actual contact point (where the tip leaves its blue chalk mark) doesn't venture outside the black 5 ring. It may look like it because the major portion of the tip is in that region but its not.

Jal said:
The miscue limit is typically taken to be one-half the radius of the cueball (1/2 R). This is where the tip actually makes contact with the cueball, as opposed to where the center of the shaft is pointing. You can sometimes hit farther out than this, but you will miscue quite a bit.

The difference between where the tip actually contacts the cueball, and where the center of the shaft is pointing, depends on the curvature of the tip. The flatter the curvature (ie, quarter shaped versus dime shaped), the more of a difference there is.

Hope that helps.

Jim

Jim is right, read carefully...

P.S. A standard striped ball works as well. Any blue chalk in the white portion of the ball and I bet you have miscued.

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#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
crappoolguy said:
I wouldn't bet money but I think I could. I might get one of those balls to see.
My guess is it looks to you like you're hitting farther from center than you actually are because of the tip's curvature - check the chalk marks. I also think you can hit farther from center than halfway to the edge, but not very hard and not consistently.

The edge of the stripe on a regular striped ball is halfway to the edge, and that's about midway between the "3" and "4" lines on the ball in the picture (although it's hard to be sure with a picture). Try hitting outside the edge of the stripe, checking your chalk marks afterwards.

pj
chgo

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#### crappoolguy

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I could do it, it certainly wouldn't be very hard. Probably about 1.5 times the speed of the lag.

#### PoolSponge

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How much do you want? LOL

I have an 11.2 mm Z2. The CB is my oyster. I find it easier to apply extreme inside rather than outside though.

Silver Member

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
WesleyW said:
... So, I'm wondering how much english can you apply on a cueball. ...
You don't need a special ball. Just use a stripe. Put the stripe horizontal. The lowest you can hit is probably still barely in the stripe. You can check for the chalk spot after you shoot to see where you really hit.

#### td873

##### C is for Cookie
Gold Member
Silver Member
WesleyW said:
Beneath I've add a picture, can you say where you can hit without miscueing. Will the 5-line be the maximum, or can you hit even more at the edge of the CB?

Althought the ball has many coincentric circles, in reality, you will not be able to hit 4 with draw. And it is physically impossible (with a standard pool cue) to hit at 5 or beyond. Just put the cue ball on the table and lay your cue stick next to it. The "top" of the tip is already at 4. This makes it impossible to hit below 4 with draw. And, as already alluded to, this is at or past the miscue limit.

In actual play, you can get table length draw (plus some) hitting at 3. I would say that this is the maximum draw for the average player.

-td

#### WesleyW

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not really interested in where you actually hit the CB. I'm more interested in where you are aiming at. So if you want maximum draw for example where do you want to aim (with the center of the tip).

#### VonRhett

##### Friends Call Me "von"
Silver Member
I'll keep this short to avoid a war, but "maximum draw" lies in your stroke, not hitting lower on the cue ball.

Really, ALL draw is in the stroke. Hitting low on the cue ball does not produce draw, per se.

Some shots require bottom "english" (lets not argue semantics here) in order to push the cue ball, not screw it back.

Put an SBA dollar coin in the middle of the cue ball - that's your cueing area sweet spot.

-von

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
WesleyW said:
I'm not really interested in where you actually hit the CB. I'm more interested in where you are aiming at. So if you want maximum draw for example where do you want to aim (with the center of the tip).
The standard technique is to hit the cue ball where you address it. There are some players who point the stick on the cloth or in the air or at Montana, but the simple, orthodox way is to stop the cue stick close to the cue ball, check that you want to hit it there, and then bring the stick back and bring it forward to land at exactly the position you had when paused at the cue ball.

In terms of the stripe I mentioned earlier, aim the center of the tip at the edge of the stripe. You will, of course, actually hit the ball in the stripe. If you never miscue there, try a little further off center.