I would like to hear it. I bet I have a story about tap to top yours.
Md team apa payouts
- Thread starter Black Cat 5791
- Start date
I would like to hear it. I bet I have a story about tap to top yours.
All of our teams get a copy of the manual at least every year, if not every session. Along with the local bylaws. And they are available upon request, as well.
That's how it rolls here. Though it appears our league is one of the well-run ones...
Scott the rulebooks and more information than most care to read are alway's made available. The simple fact is that no one bothered to read any of the information that is readily made available. Their attention was only gotten once they took all the points away. After the fees were corrected the points were given back minus the bonus points per the by laws. This action caused them to drop in the standings which allowed the next Team which were 2 points behind to move into 2nd place.
Black Cat
Blackcat
Do you REALLY believe this???????
RW was the new captain and said "He never got training or RULE BOOK"
Why not tell FOLKS it was MASTERS???? Different from League!!!
The old captain left with out leaving a "RULE BOOK"
RW and myself looked and NO RULE BOOK in Folder!
RW was the new captain and he got nothing when he took over as captain!
You say "readily available" without defining Readily Available = in league office!!!!!!!!
The pool room did not have a copy posted either!!!!!
No website back then!!!!
I was out of APA for 10 years!!!!!
I was never given ANYTHING!!!!!!
So, how would I know????
Kid Dynomite
Scott, I don't know how it's done elsewhere, but in my area every new captain gets a team manual their first session, and every captain gets a new manual when the edition changes every two years. Any member may purchase one from us or print it from the national site for free. Bylaws are provided to every team every session, and are also available on our website.
I give up, I'm not going to continue. You obviously don't want to listen to reason. You guy's approached the Sr. Div. Rep before even speaking to me and he told you guy's the same thing I did, after you did approach me. So even though muliple people are telling you the same thing I guess everyone else is wrong, and your right.
I am done with this.
Black Cat
None of that information is relevant. I really don't care, the fact of the matter is that everyone is alway's saying that the leagues don't pay and all the crap. I only posted this information to show that some do, I would think more do than the one's that don't reguardless of the amounts. Everyone needs to stop worrying about how much a person's business is making or not.
Black Cat
Black Cat, in post #1 you opened with this statement: "Please take the time and read this entire POST!!!!!! These are the payouts that our league operator pay's out 3 times a year at our Regional Tournaments. I hope that this will stop all the bashing about the APA that goes on."
In regards to that statement and the one posted above I can only say that your original post will never "stop all the bashing that goes on" about the APA. Then you go on in the above quoted post and tell someone that their information is irrelevent. All information IS relevent. Well, obviously the bashing continues (from my observations reading this entire thread up to this point). You see, those of us that have complete d*ckheads for LO's are never going to be happy with their APA leagues (and it isn't always about the money/payouts either). That being said these are my opinions:
1.) The APA is a good pool league IF all rules are followed and scorekeeping is done correctly.
2.) People that seem to have problems are the ones that have the d*ckheads for LO's.
My APA area has about 120 teams playing weekly. At $6.00 per person x5 = $30 nightly x 120 teams = $3,600 a week that goes to the LO. I don't know how much the LO sends to St. Louis, but I know that the first and second place session winners get a trophy (One team trophy and eight individual trophies). If you win the two-week playoffs, you get an additional plaque. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out here that MY LO is pocketing a buttload of money. I personally don't give a fat rat's a$$ about it. I don't want no payout. I don't want no trophy. All I want to do is shoot a little pool, have a couple drinks, and interact with my friends (and make new ones). But......some people DO care, and these are the ones that gripe the hardest and the loudest against APA. On top of the money issues, there are LO's (like mine) that do some of the most damaging bastardizing of the written rules as you can imagine. So, here is what I think could be a beginning of a fix for the APA to start getting bashed less:
It is simply removing most of the power that the individual LO has. Make it mandantory for a LO to report to St. Louis ALL monies taken in (league fees, singles boards, tournaments, etc.). Then St. Louis should make it mandantory that ALL LO's give back (for winning sessions, playoffs) a STANDARD percentage of his intake, and do this everywhere APA is played, standardized worldwide. Then, have a more detailed set of rules that a LO has NO POWER of overruling (less or NO bylaws) so that a LO cannot screw any team/team member over at his/her own disgression. Make it so a crooked/d*ckheaded LO has to explain to National HQ's why he made a ruling AGAINST the standardized written rule and make that LO pay (via fines) for breaking National rules. These two fixes alone would greatly aid in the APA's reputation of being a "stand up" league where rules are followed by its authority figures and some type of reward is given for excelling in session play.
Like I always say in any APA thread I post in, I do not bash the APA because it is what it is, a beginners/social/fun league. I like it. But.....I do not even a little bit like my LO. He may very well qualify as the worst LO in America!!! Happy for you that you have a good one. I wish it were me.
Just my $.02
Maniac
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No Rules Book
lol @ not getting a rules book in the APA packet. Now that is one of the funniest dig/excuses on the APA I have seen. Has anyone who didn't get a rules book bother to call the LO & actually ask for one or maybe the internet is available today & it is for download on their website. HaHa geeez.
My apologies as I'm not meaning that as a wise crack or to p*** anyone off, I just found that quite amusing lol. :sorry:
lol @ not getting a rules book in the APA packet. Now that is one of the funniest dig/excuses on the APA I have seen. Has anyone who didn't get a rules book bother to call the LO & actually ask for one or maybe the internet is available today & it is for download on their website. HaHa geeez.
My apologies as I'm not meaning that as a wise crack or to p*** anyone off, I just found that quite amusing lol. :sorry:
I think this is one of best posts about the APA I have read in a long while. Thank you sir!
Well Maniac where should I begin.
In reguard to my comment's in the referenced post I said that the information wasn't relevent because. Any LO is a businessman who has invested time and money to build a business. The amount of monies made by a non-public company is no one's business.
One of the complaints that alway's come up on the forum is that the league's don't payout any prize money, my argument has alway's been that they do. Some my pay more than other's that I will give you, however the biggest thing that people need to realize is that no league has to payout anything. If you happen to be in a small market area market area that has let's say 50 Teams in dollars and cent's what's that equal.
$30 x 50 = $1500.00 per week.
$1500.00 x 52 = $78k per year.
Most of the Leagues are run by at least 2 people, let's say a husband and a wife. This is their only source of income, how much of that money is paid to APA Corporate? How much is paid in taxes? How much is paid in business expenses? The list goes on.
Either way that doesn't leave a whole lot of money, so I ask again why should that matter? The biggest push that any league advertises is play in the league and you could win a trip to Nationals and play for XYZ amount of money. Nothing has ever said join a league because the LO is going to pay you any money at all, so why is it expected.
I started playing league pool because I wanted to play pool. I wanted the competition. I wanted the friendships, hanging out with the crew. Nowhere in the decision was money ever apart of it.
Just my .02
Black Cat
Out of all of the nationally-based leagues, which one do you think is closest to what you describe here? We already have to do the reporting you suggest. That's the only way the franchise royalty can be calculated. APA conducts audits of our players' funds, to make sure we're paying out what we say we're paying out. Bylaws have to be approved by the national organization, and there are certain things in the manual we are not allowed to change. We can't change the basic game rules, for instance. Believe it or not, there are national league organizations that do not require the local operator to follow ANY of their rules!
As for requiring a set percentage to be paid back, all that would do is cause the price to go up in the areas that don't already meet that percentage. It's just like what happens when the sales tax rate goes up - the increase gets passed to the consumer. The operator is going to make what they need to make, and if they are required to pay back a certain percentage they will simply collect more to fund the payback.
The real issue, and you touched on it, is the occasional crooked / d*ckheaded LO. You get one of those, and it doesn't matter what is legislated. They will find a way to be who they are. So you might as well legislate in a way that will benefit the good LO's. What is really needed is a way to identify the bad ones and weed them out. Unfortunately, that's a pretty tough chore, for reasons I'm sure you haven't even thought of considering (for example, whatever APA can do to the bad guy they can also do to me, so I'm occasionally in the position of defending the bad guy from APA).
Once AGAIN now people (please listen to these next few comments carefully). I am NOT bashing APA. I have ALWAYS said that I like the APA. It has a good system in place IF it is done according to properly enforced rules/scorekeeping. I play in an APA 8-ball and 9-ball team. I am a Captain on one and a co-Captain on the other. I do not play for a payout. I do not care if I ever go to Vegas. I do not care if I play in the City Championship tournament. Hell, I don't even care if my team makes the playoffs. I want NOTHING back from the APA. I've said it over and over again that playing in an APA league is just a night out with my wife and friends throwing back a few cold ones and socializing around a pool table. But....obviously there ARE some people that want something back from the APA, hence the "bashing".
You have to remember that the OP's intent on this thread was to quelch APA bashing. His area makes HUGE money, so nobody should ever again complain about THEIR payouts? I'm not advocating that a LO should have to give an overly large percentage of his/her income, but anyone contributing to his/her LO's wallet SHOULD be able to expect a little something for their successes at the end, don't you think? Bashing? Of course there's gonna be some bashing. It's not much different than people complaining about their jobs. Just about everyone in America does that.
They have a right to complain about the APA because they are PAYING INTO IT. Granted, they can leave the APA as many already have, but all I'm saying is do not say that they do not have the RIGHT to complain, because they do!
All I offered in my post was a way to quelch a lot of the bashing. If it never happens, so be it. Makes me no difference one way or another. Mine was certainly is a better solution than the OP's idea of telling us how much money his area got back. Geez, that's more like throwing gasoline on a fire!
Good, upstanding, honest and dedicated LO = Fun league w/no bashing.
D*ckheaded, dishonest, biased LO = declining membership, complaints, and bashing.
It ain't never gonna change until National HQ's does something about it (which is gonna be NEVER).
Maniac
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Just so we're clear, Maniac, I didn't think you were bashing APA and I certainly didn't intend for my reply to make you think I did. I was just trying to provide some insight into why I think your suggestions won't change the problems that exist.
If someone has bad experiences with a league (ANY league), it almost always boils down to the individuals involved - the operator and the individual. Sometimes it's one or the other, sometimes it's both.
I've seen both sides of it. I've seen operators I felt were giving the APA a black eye, and I've seen players act like victims when they got exactly what they deserved. Sandbaggers complaining about unfair treatment (they felt they were singled out because they were the ones who got caught), players who accused me of changing the rules when their recollection of the rule came from some other player who misinformed them. It happens, and some people like to hold a grudge or blame someone else for their own shortcomings.
We agree that a bad operator can sour the league experience in any league, and that it can be really hard to get that changed.
If someone has bad experiences with a league (ANY league), it almost always boils down to the individuals involved - the operator and the individual. Sometimes it's one or the other, sometimes it's both.
I've seen both sides of it. I've seen operators I felt were giving the APA a black eye, and I've seen players act like victims when they got exactly what they deserved. Sandbaggers complaining about unfair treatment (they felt they were singled out because they were the ones who got caught), players who accused me of changing the rules when their recollection of the rule came from some other player who misinformed them. It happens, and some people like to hold a grudge or blame someone else for their own shortcomings.
We agree that a bad operator can sour the league experience in any league, and that it can be really hard to get that changed.