Mechanics... Diomond Tables

New Mueller's Catalog Pic

Here is the new catalog pic... Please note...

1. Fabric control strip is now shown on top and has a round surface.

2. The name is now " Artemis Intercontinental No.66" former name is "Artemis Intercontinental Pool No.66"




I just discoverd the demintions have not changed and the carom rubber is in fact 1/16" larger at the top, I thought they were the same.(my bad) This does not however change the fact that the fabric has been on the flat side and is now on the round. This now has me thinking that it is a major mistake by the Artemis Co. and they are just now fixing it??? I have been assuming all along that they were just selling thier carom rubber in shorter lengths, not true the K55 has never been the same.
My original argument still remains the same (round side down???) If we compair the profile of any other brand of K55 to Artemis the only differance is the fabric location. What is more important the profile or the fabric control strip? I'll bet if we install any other K55 upside down we will have the same results as the Artemis is giving now.
We all need to be carefull now, will you receive new stock or old? How will YOU install it? Round side up is my choice.
 
Sorry no pic

chalkdust said:
Here is the new catalog pic... Please note...

1. Fabric control strip is now shown on top and has a round surface.

2. The name is now " Artemis Intercontinental No.66" former name is "Artemis Intercontinental Pool No.66"




I just discoverd the demintions have not changed and the carom rubber is in fact 1/16" larger at the top, I thought they were the same.(my bad) This does not however change the fact that the fabric has been on the flat side and is now on the round. This now has me thinking that it is a major mistake by the Artemis Co. and they are just now fixing it??? I have been assuming all along that they were just selling thier carom rubber in shorter lengths, not true the K55 has never been the same.
My original argument still remains the same (round side down???) If we compair the profile of any other brand of K55 to Artemis the only differance is the fabric location. What is more important the profile or the fabric control strip? I'll bet if we install any other K55 upside down we will have the same results as the Artemis is giving now.
We all need to be carefull now, will you receive new stock or old? How will YOU install it? Round side up is my choice.
Click to expand...


Sorry messed up pic upload...
 

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perfectpocketz said:
Maybe your forgetting that I do all tables....oh yeah that's right you said in another post that I only do rails and someone else finishes the table for me.

Well I've put the same cushion on billiard tables....worked on billiard tables that use the same cushion.

So even if Diamond had never used the Artemis cushion....I'm more than sure I would have seen them....as well as used them on billiard tables.

I'm not knocking anyone....or anyone that uses that cushion.....cause I use them all the time on rails.

What I asked was have you ever seen any other cushion used hump side down.
I didn't ask about how my customers feel about the Artemis cushion....I've had a lot of guy's ask me why after 6 months or so the table speeds up and starts to back short.

When I use Brunswick Super Speed cushions...the table plays better and better as the cloth breaks in.

Trust me....you know as well as I know I'm putting the cushions on perfect...and my rail work is dead nuts on.....I think you know that as well...after all you were just here in my shop not 3 months ago.....checking my rail work with calipers and found not one thing wrong.

I'm putting the hump side up on all my artemis from here on out.......is that going to fix anything.....I'll soon find out in about 6 months.

The only problem I see with the Aremis cushion is that when your in a pressure match.....the cushion becomes so lively that it can make the player start playing tentative.

That's straight from some of the best players in the world.... my GC5 has artemis on at 1-31/64ths...and plays real lively......but that's also hump side down.

I know you don't know anything more than I do about the cushions or the rail work.....but maybe one your students may know something that we don't and can help us?

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

Thanks for the one open mind, the profile is more important than the control strip IMO...:thumbup:
 
realkingcobra said:
Klematch P59 cushions are the exact same profile as the Artemis Intercontinental #66 cushions, including the canvas strip being installed on the flat sided, just like the Artemis;)
Click to expand...

Have you a pic of the profile? Where can I find this rubber?
 
chalkdust said:
Thanks for the one open mind, the profile is more important than the control strip IMO...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

You were making great points....but everyone wants to think Glen is always right......I'm far from right on anything.
I know the cushion hasn't been up to what I want out of a cushion.
When I put hours in on rails and know there as good as it gets....then when the cloth get older....the tables start to play faster and spring.
Trust me this is not diamonds fault.....I sell a lot of diamond tables as well as work on them.....and there a great table.....we just got a 10' diamond here in ga.
I just want the cushions to play as well as the tables are made
I think the Artemis cushions is one of the best cushion on the market today....I want it to play as good as it is made.

I think we're going to figure it out.....just have to have some changes to it.
I just got and other machine made that cost 3500 just to do 2 things different to rails that I rework. Trust me....this is going to work awesome on the rail work I do.....and if I can get the cushions on the right way....I'm almost sure this kind of question about Artemis cushions will be a thing of the past.

Mark Gregory
 
Last edited:
Here we have a case of mis-labeled and misunderstood photos across the entire internet. Muellers being a prime example...

In the new catalog, the photo of the "carom" cushion is the real Intercontinental k55.
But the pool 66 and the other cushion labeled as the intercontinental are actually the same photo.

Everyone remain calm and return to your seats.
 
perfectpocketz said:
You were making great points....but everyone wants to think Glen is always right......I'm far from right on anything.
I know the cushion hasn't been up to what I want out of a cushion.
When input hours in on rails and know there as good as it gets....then when the cloth get older....the tables start to play faster and spring.
Trust me this is not diamonds fault.....I sell a lot of diamond tables as well as work on them.....and there a great table.....we just got a 10' diamond here in ga.
I just want the cushions to playas well as the tables are made
I think the Artemis cushions is one of the best cushion on the market today....I want it to play as good as it is made.

I think we're going to figure it out.....just have to have some changes to it.
I just got and other machine made that cost 3500 just to do 2 things different to rails that I rework. Trust me....this is going to work awesome on the rail work I do.....and if I can get the cushions on the right way....I'm almost sure this kind of question about Artemis cushions will be a thing of the past.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

That's why it's called research and development, and that's what I do Mark, as you yourself do. We've both said we're about 99% there, but there's something missing in that 1%, which is why we're still working at it. Cushions have changed about as much as pool tables have over the years, and if Diamond does find a better cushion to test out, I'll be the one doing the modification on a set of rails to do that test, but that call is not up to me. So, you can keep on trying to get under my skin all you want, don't really matter to me. As long as I know what I'm doing, that's all the really counts. And if I do run into something that I'm not really sure about, I'll figure it out, as I have no need to call on you for advice, I've been at this for a long time, and I'll be at it until I drop someday, because it's what I love to do.

Glen
 
perfectpocketz said:
I just got and other machine made that cost 3500 just to do 2 things different to rails that I rework. Trust me....this is going to work awesome on the rail work I do.....and if I can get the cushions on the right way....I'm almost sure this kind of question about Artemis cushions will be a thing of the past.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

There isn't anything that you can do to a set of rails that would be something we haven't already talked about, including taking off the bottom of the rails to lower down the step down from the finish of the rail to the sub-rail so it's flat across the rail cloth, as a lot of the ideas and way's you work on rails actually came from talking with me. Trust me, you wasn't the first to come up with that process. You should think a little more before you accuse me of spreading around your ideas on how to work on rails, as to who's ideas they really were:cool: starting with the door planer, routers and a few other jigs you currently use in your rail work today:cool:

Glen
 
Hungarian said:
Danny has scoured the achieves to find the tribal knowledge one needs.

Do you do taxes too? Maybe you can find me a new loop hole
Click to expand...

I think it's because they don't want to read the facts, but hey...they can do what ever they want to the rails they work on, I'll keep working as a consultant to Diamond and sleep well at night:thumbup:

Glen
 
You will ALWAYS collect more flies with honey than vinegar. Then people will want to agree with you. Never criticize, condemn or complain.

Come on here bad mouthing Diamond, who does more for the players and the sport than any other, and you will be denied your wish to be understood and agreed with, even if you are correct, in which case you are NOT.

chalkdust said:
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE OPEN YOUR MINDE AND TRY AND SEE MY POINT!
Click to expand...
 
Some people just won't learn Glen.

Keep doing with you do man!!

:)

realkingcobra said:
I think it's because they don't want to read the facts, but hey...they can do what ever they want to the rails they work on, I'll keep working as a consultant to Diamond and sleep well at night:thumbup:

Glen
Click to expand...
 
Balls are dirty, table don't play right, banks short...blame the cushions!

Cloth is worn out, needs replaced, banks short....blame the cushions!

Waxed the balls with the wrong cleaner/wax...balls hop off the cushions....blame the cushions!

Table is so dirty hands turn blue...banks short...blame the cushions!

Still have the red label designed rails, table banks short...blame the cushions!

Humidity is high, cloth feels damp, banks short and balls hopp...blame the cushions!

Using Super Aremith Pro balls, no shine left on the balls, haven't cleaned them in ages, table banks short and springy...blame the cushions!

hmmmm...yeah, you all have it right...it's the cushions, because they're upside down:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
perfectpocketz said:
You were making great points....but everyone wants to think Glen is always right......I'm far from right on anything.
I know the cushion hasn't been up to what I want out of a cushion.
When input hours in on rails and know there as good as it gets....then when the cloth get older....the tables start to play faster and spring.
Trust me this is not diamonds fault.....I sell a lot of diamond tables as well as work on them.....and there a great table.....we just got a 10' diamond here in ga.
I just want the cushions to playas well as the tables are made
I think the Artemis cushions is one of the best cushion on the market today....I want it to play as good as it is made.

I think we're going to figure it out.....just have to have some changes to it.
I just got and other machine made that cost 3500 just to do 2 things different to rails that I rework. Trust me....this is going to work awesome on the rail work I do.....and if I can get the cushions on the right way....I'm almost sure this kind of question about Artemis cushions will be a thing of the past.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

One other thing Mark, since you're on that high horse of yours, you can THANK me for you getting the Diamond 9ft one piece slate so you could put it on your work bench....as I had to argue with Greg AND Chad to give it to you, even though you work on Brunswick tables...you WOULDN'T have got it otherwise...you can take that to the bank!

Glen, the FRIEND you've thown under the bus!...but only ONCE!
 
perfectpocketz said:
You were making great points....but everyone wants to think Glen is always right......I'm far from right on anything.
I know the cushion hasn't been up to what I want out of a cushion.
When input hours in on rails and know there as good as it gets....then when the cloth get older....the tables start to play faster and spring.
Trust me this is not diamonds fault.....I sell a lot of diamond tables as well as work on them.....and there a great table.....we just got a 10' diamond here in ga.
I just want the cushions to playas well as the tables are made
I think the Artemis cushions is one of the best cushion on the market today....I want it to play as good as it is made.

I think we're going to figure it out.....just have to have some changes to it.
I just got and other machine made that cost 3500 just to do 2 things different to rails that I rework. Trust me....this is going to work awesome on the rail work I do.....and if I can get the cushions on the right way....I'm almost sure this kind of question about Artemis cushions will be a thing of the past.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

Mark, how did that Diamond 10ft ProAm play, Paul Smith said you couldn't wait to get on it and hit some balls...said you were banking them in from everywhere, I fail to understand how that can be...when the Artemis Intercontinental #66 cushions on that table are mounted round side down, canvas side up....just like all the rest of the Diamond's with the Artemis cushions installed;)

Glen
 
Hungarian said:
You will ALWAYS collect more flies with honey than vinegar. Then people will want to agree with you. Never criticize, condemn or complain.

Come on here bad mouthing Diamond, who does more for the players and the sport than any other, and you will be denied your wish to be understood and agreed with, even if you are correct, in which case you are NOT.
Click to expand...

I see the minions have arrived at this thread.


JC
 
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