Mechanics question on combined English shots
- Thread starter DJ14.1
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ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Not compensating enough for deflection.
Thats the short answer. :thumbup:
Not sure how you apply your sidespin, but you might want to look into back hand english and pivot points on cues. This info might help you some.
When you are using any type of spin you need to make sure you are compensating for the deflection and swerve and any masse that may happen if the cue stick is not level. Try a different shaft, you may find one that is more suited to how you hit the ball.
It's difficult to tell if your cue action is to blame when playing such shots because for one the chances are there is an angle on the shot so it could be your initial aim, and two you can't be 100% convinced that you have adjusted for the swerve and squirt of the shot. If the person is absolutely sure it's mechanics then the best way to problem solve is to try it on straight in shots with high inside and notice if you are hitting the shot straight ie adjust for squirt and try follow the OB into the pocket with the CB. Chances are they can't do this even with the OB 6" away from the pocket because they don't adjust for the English correctly.
Make certain you are adjusting for the English and speed of shot correctly before trying to diagnose cue errors as you could end up ruining a perfectly straight cue action.
Make certain you are adjusting for the English and speed of shot correctly before trying to diagnose cue errors as you could end up ruining a perfectly straight cue action.
I think everyone has shared good information and different information and that's because none of us can tell you what you are doing and why without 1. being an experienced instructor, and then 2. watching you.
yes a low deflection may help, yes compensating for deflection may help but you know what would help you out the most would be to seek out a PBIA instructor in your area and take a lesson on inside English. I wish you the best.
yes a low deflection may help, yes compensating for deflection may help but you know what would help you out the most would be to seek out a PBIA instructor in your area and take a lesson on inside English. I wish you the best.
Most of the responses so far are referring to compensation and in some way relate to aim point, which though correct, doesn't apply to my problem. My problem is mechanical and I'm trying to understand what may be causing me to miss my aim point on such shots. I know where to deliver the ball, but I'm not executing properly. My bad mechanics that have crept in over the years affect me on other shots also, but far and away most frequently on these high-inside shots with speed.
Your post is probably most accurate as it pertains to me thus far. I definitely need a swing coach to iron out the sins that my past has developed. For the moment I've been trying to diagnose it myself. For me it's a "feel" thing, and the feel is off.
Well post up a video or expect an array of answers that don't meet your needs. Your question is too vague as the possibilities of why you miss are endless without seeing you perform these shots.
I undercut these shots much more than I overcut them, and when I overcut them, it's always bad aim.
Hard to imagine a stroking error where you actually hit high inside and affect the shot line with the stroke significantly. Unless you're swiping into it from 2 tips inside, coming into the CB at a weird angle.
On high english shots, swerve takes earlier than the same english hit lower, this leads to undercutting on IE, overcutting with OE. Some have postulated that high IE doesn't squirt due to their lazy observations noting that the CB gets onto or close to the original cue direction.
You've gotten some good info.
The squirt/swerve is a net effect that needs to be 'balanced' for the CB to arrive a the correct contact point. If hit very firm there could be basically little to no swerve. So the 'balance' maybe be too much on the squirt side.
Line some up & hit them more softly & see what you think.
If you think it is the mechanics of your stroke, you may be angling the cue slight into the ball to 'dig' into the CB so as to not miscue depending on how much english you're using.
But like some have said it's all guessing sight unseen.
Good luck with finding the cause & the solution.
The squirt/swerve is a net effect that needs to be 'balanced' for the CB to arrive a the correct contact point. If hit very firm there could be basically little to no swerve. So the 'balance' maybe be too much on the squirt side.
Line some up & hit them more softly & see what you think.
If you think it is the mechanics of your stroke, you may be angling the cue slight into the ball to 'dig' into the CB so as to not miscue depending on how much english you're using.
But like some have said it's all guessing sight unseen.
Good luck with finding the cause & the solution.
That would greatly depend..
First off, how are you compensating for your side spin? BHE?, Feel?, Feel and LD tech?
Second, how do you line up for follow and draw? Do you elevate and lower your bridge? Leave it in place and lift or lower your arm?
All of these things would need to be answered for you to know what might be causing the errors.
For instance, if you're using BHE and either a) aren't at the correct pivot point for that shaft or b) aren't elevating or lowering your bridge for follow and draw, you will be off from the initial aimline.
From what you're describing I would think the most likely cause is the not lowering and elevating your bridge for follow and draw causing increased swerve.
Whether working from feel or BHE, if you get comfortable and knowledgeable of where to aim on a center ball side spin shot, you have your cue pretty level to the table. If you apply draw by leaving your bridge hand in the same location and just move the butt of your cue to strike lower on the cueball, you increase swerve, effectively doing a mini masse and it throws off the aim relative to what you are more used to striking for side spin at center ball.
Instead try lowering your bridge for draw and elevating your bridge for follow to keep the cue as level as possible. This will minimize swerve and require less or no compensation.
Jaden
First off, how are you compensating for your side spin? BHE?, Feel?, Feel and LD tech?
Second, how do you line up for follow and draw? Do you elevate and lower your bridge? Leave it in place and lift or lower your arm?
All of these things would need to be answered for you to know what might be causing the errors.
For instance, if you're using BHE and either a) aren't at the correct pivot point for that shaft or b) aren't elevating or lowering your bridge for follow and draw, you will be off from the initial aimline.
From what you're describing I would think the most likely cause is the not lowering and elevating your bridge for follow and draw causing increased swerve.
Whether working from feel or BHE, if you get comfortable and knowledgeable of where to aim on a center ball side spin shot, you have your cue pretty level to the table. If you apply draw by leaving your bridge hand in the same location and just move the butt of your cue to strike lower on the cueball, you increase swerve, effectively doing a mini masse and it throws off the aim relative to what you are more used to striking for side spin at center ball.
Instead try lowering your bridge for draw and elevating your bridge for follow to keep the cue as level as possible. This will minimize swerve and require less or no compensation.
Jaden
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I'm sorry but you aren't in a position to get help if this is your belief...
If you're having problems with high inside or low outside, or low inside or high outside, or whatever to do with side spin and you don't believe that how you compensate aim makes a difference, there is no point in trying to help you farther.
Especially when you're relating it to when you don't use high or low and aim for shots with side spin.
Jaden
If you're having problems with high inside or low outside, or low inside or high outside, or whatever to do with side spin and you don't believe that how you compensate aim makes a difference, there is no point in trying to help you farther.
Especially when you're relating it to when you don't use high or low and aim for shots with side spin.
Jaden
When using side spin and top::
a) the CB leave the tip-CB contact at an angle (deflection)
b) the CB arcs in the opposite direction as low-inside would arc
c) the CB-OB contact contains throw
d) the CB-OB contact contains skid
The amounts of b,c,d vary with speed and spin.
My guess is that you are not compensating for the arc of the side-with-topspin (arc) of the CB between tip-CB contact and CB-OB contact. You probably ARE compensating for deflection. You may or may not be compensating for the throw and skid.
Hit them heavy
It make rather little sense, to me, to think that one type of tip position affects your mechanics over another. I'm not saying it's impossible but unlikely.
It sounds to me like you may be looking for an 'excuse' for not making the proper compensations. I shoot very much with 'feel' & my subconscious but I started with english at 13, more then 48 years ago.
The more common miss for inside english is for the ball to be 'under cut'. One reason can be because the shooter does not realize that the spin throw combines with the collision throw as they are in the same direction.
IF you realize that, you may be over compensating for that & as I said earlier, a higher speed shot reduces the effects.
Good Luck with figuring out your cause & solution.
It sounds to me like you may be looking for an 'excuse' for not making the proper compensations. I shoot very much with 'feel' & my subconscious but I started with english at 13, more then 48 years ago.
The more common miss for inside english is for the ball to be 'under cut'. One reason can be because the shooter does not realize that the spin throw combines with the collision throw as they are in the same direction.
IF you realize that, you may be over compensating for that & as I said earlier, a higher speed shot reduces the effects.
Good Luck with figuring out your cause & solution.
The cause is "absence of practice". Try this: set up a straight in shot then shoot it repetitively with 1. high right 2. right 3. low right. If you can't do this, practice some more.
Bingo...... :grin-square:
Unless there is some sort of a mental block causing you to steer the cue on shots with high inside, youre not aiming it correctly for the english you are putting on the ball. If you are consistently over cutting those shots, its either your aim or inconsistent application of english.
Im not belittling or talking down you the op, but I need to ask. Do you do understand the effects of sidespin in terms of squirt, throw and swerve?
