Metal lathe.

C

cue-healer

Banned
I am just about to purchase a metal lathe. I have been comparing many different models. Im sure that if a metal lathe were going to be used mainley for metal working then my question would be more signifacant.

When a metal lathe is used for cuebuilding what is the most important part. I think that there is a lot of wast in the capibilities of sutch a machine when used for cuebuilding. I plan to budget $1000 for a nice 6 jaw chuck. Having said this should I buy a lesser price machine. I am also going to purchase digital readouts for $500. Its my understanding that most merchant bought machines are made and assimbled from the same place.

So is it wise to buy a harbor freight machine with a slighty larger motor with a spine hole of 1-1/2 hole for $1800-$2000, Or buy grizzley with a smaller motor, smaller spine hole 1-7/16, for $2000-$2500. Keep in mind that im spending $1500 in accessories. Would this be a very nice start.
Grizzley v's harbor freight Devided by common accessories equals what??
Thanks
John
 
cue-healer said:
I am just about to purchase a metal lathe. I have been comparing many different models. Im sure that if a metal lathe were going to be used mainley for metal working then my question would be more signifacant.

When a metal lathe is used for cuebuilding what is the most important part. I think that there is a lot of wast in the capibilities of sutch a machine when used for cuebuilding. I plan to budget $1000 for a nice 6 jaw chuck. Having said this should I buy a lesser price machine. I am also going to purchase digital readouts for $500. Its my understanding that most merchant bought machines are made and assimbled from the same place.

So is it wise to buy a harbor freight machine with a slighty larger motor with a spine hole of 1-1/2 hole for $1800-$2000, Or buy grizzley with a smaller motor, smaller spine hole 1-7/16, for $2000-$2500. Keep in mind that im spending $1500 in accessories. Would this be a very nice start.
Grizzley v's harbor freight Devided by common accessories equals what??
Thanks
John
Click to expand...

Although I can't comment on the better of the two, I would want 40" between centres and a taper bar. Although the taper bar that comes with it will probably only be useful for cutting points, the base will be there for your full sized bar.

Generally speaking you are going to be cutting wood or very small metal parts. I don't think the motor size will cause you any problems regardless of which one you buy. The holes on both my lathes are 1 7/16 and in 10 years I have not wanted or needed a bigger one.
 
The Grizzleys are decent machines. I have an ENCO that is about the same as grizzley. A 12 x 40 is a good size (36 is to short as you don't get the full 36" travel) -- make sure you have at least 1500 RPM for sanding.
good luck
John
 
cue-healer said:
I am just about to purchase a metal lathe. I have been comparing many different models. Im sure that if a metal lathe were going to be used mainley for metal working then my question would be more signifacant.

When a metal lathe is used for cuebuilding what is the most important part. I think that there is a lot of wast in the capibilities of sutch a machine when used for cuebuilding. I plan to budget $1000 for a nice 6 jaw chuck. Having said this should I buy a lesser price machine. I am also going to purchase digital readouts for $500. Its my understanding that most merchant bought machines are made and assimbled from the same place.

So is it wise to buy a harbor freight machine with a slighty larger motor with a spine hole of 1-1/2 hole for $1800-$2000, Or buy grizzley with a smaller motor, smaller spine hole 1-7/16, for $2000-$2500. Keep in mind that im spending $1500 in accessories. Would this be a very nice start.
Grizzley v's harbor freight Devided by common accessories equals what??
Thanks
John
Click to expand...


A quick change tool post is a must.
 
if you get a picture of a grizzley and a harbor freight lathe; you'll see the are essentially the same lathe,,,,heck, some of the parts even interchange & they are both made in China,,,do research on Chinese websites and you will find same companies making lathes with a dozen different names for export to the USA...The Truth is OUT There
 
Jack is right on about them often using the same lathes. I bought some motors from Harbor freight once for about $53 then they did not have one next time I needed one and I got one from Grizzly for over $150. When I got the motor it was the exact same model number motor and the serial number was only a few digits different than Harbor Freights motor. Bottom line is Grizzly keeps replacement parts in better than HF, but they charge a lot more for them. Grizzly also refuses at times to provide parts if you can't give them model and serial number off of your machine so they can make sure you got it from them. I would go with the 40 inch between centers even though I was losing a little spindle bore. If you are planning to taper butts and shafts on it, don't waste your money on their taper bar unless it is thrown in for free. Put the money toward getting a butt/shaft set made for your lathe.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
cueman said:
Jack is right on about them often using the same lathes. I bought some motors from Harbor freight once for about $53 then they did not have one next time I needed one and I got one from Grizzly for over $150. When I got the motor it was the exact same model number motor and the serial number was only a few digits different than Harbor Freights motor. Bottom line is Grizzly keeps replacement parts in better than HF, but they charge a lot more for them. Grizzly also refuses at times to provide parts if you can't give them model and serial number off of your machine so they can make sure you got it from them. I would go with the 40 inch between centers even though I was losing a little spindle bore. If you are planning to taper butts and shafts on it, don't waste your money on their taper bar unless it is thrown in for free. Put the money toward getting a butt/shaft set made for your lathe.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Click to expand...

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I believe there is a pecking order in the equipment that comes out of China. Jet is about on top of the list and then there are other companies such as Enco, Birmingham, Grizzly, H/F and others right on down the line. I believe Jet pays the most and gets the pick of the crop. What they turn down goes to the next highest bidder and so on until you reach the H/F and Speedway catagories. When you buy a Jet you get a clean, imported lathe with good castings all trued and ready to run. A H/F lathe will come with sand in the bearings, castings filled with bondo, cosmoline everywhere and not very trued up. If you are handy with tools and don't mind getting dirty, you can buy a H/F lathe or mill, take it apart, clean it up real good especially in the out of the way places such as inside the gear boxes and the bearings and then reassemble making sure everything is tweaked for precision and then the H/F lathe is as good as the Jet but you will save 1500 to 2000.00.

If you want a good turn key lathe then buy a Jet. If you want to save money then buy a H/F but if a H/F is purchased you should expect to take some time cleanining and setting up or it's not going to run very true or last very long.

I've got many H/F tools that I've reworked and they work as good as much more expensive tools. My H/F band saw works as good as any 14" band saw on the market. Took a few hours of tuning and a good blade but I cut my inlay wood and Ivory to within a couple of ths.. My lathes are all American made except for a 13 X 36 Enco and a 12 X 40 Jet. I've had the Enco for 15 yrs. and runs out less than a .001 and the Jet was built in 83 and runs just as true. A little kerosine, a file, a good precision level and a little common sense can do wonders on setting up machinery properly.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I believe there is a pecking order in the equipment that comes out of China. Jet is about on top of the list and then there are other companies such as Enco, Birmingham, Grizzly, H/F and others right on down the line. I believe Jet pays the most and gets the pick of the crop. What they turn down goes to the next highest bidder and so on until you reach the H/F and Speedway catagories. When you buy a Jet you get a clean, imported lathe with good castings all trued and ready to run. A H/F lathe will come with sand in the bearings, castings filled with bondo, cosmoline everywhere and not very trued up. If you are handy with tools and don't mind getting dirty, you can buy a H/F lathe or mill, take it apart, clean it up real good especially in the out of the way places such as inside the gear boxes and the bearings and then reassemble making sure everything is tweaked for precision and then the H/F lathe is as good as the Jet but you will save 1500 to 2000.00.

If you want a good turn key lathe then buy a Jet. If you want to save money then buy a H/F but if a H/F is purchased you should expect to take some time cleanining and setting up or it's not going to run very true or last very long.

I've got many H/F tools that I've reworked and they work as good as much more expensive tools. My H/F band saw works as good as any 14" band saw on the market. Took a few hours of tuning and a good blade but I cut my inlay wood and Ivory to within a couple of ths.. My lathes are all American made except for a 13 X 36 Enco and a 12 X 40 Jet. I've had the Enco for 15 yrs. and runs out less than a .001 and the Jet was built in 83 and runs just as true. A little kerosine, a file, a good precision level and a little common sense can do wonders on setting up machinery properly.

Dick
Click to expand...



This seems to be true, atleast in the case Of My mini. It's the cheap homier/speedway version, but simular to most others. It's works very well on small stuff for me, but did'nt come out of the crate that way. It took some time to tune & break the ways in, but it's a great little lathe now. I got lucky and the jaws were centered well on Mine, but during shipping the crosslide lead and handle were broken, so I had replacements sent and changed them out. If you want to clean them well, then you practically have to disassemble due to the red grease they pack the lathe in alone. They are'nt stingy with it, and It is slopped inside and outside of just about everything on the lathe.
I would read up on some lathe forums about them If possible. I believe I have read in the past of issues with the electronic boards in some brands of the mini and fullsize lathes. If I remember correctly It was'nt neccesarlly the cheap versions either. Greg
 
If cue sticks are less than 60" a shaft being 28"-30" and same for butt why then do you need a 40" lathe. 36" wouldnt work??
Thanks,
John
 
cue-healer said:
If cue sticks are less than 60" a shaft being 28"-30" and same for butt why then do you need a 40" lathe. 36" wouldnt work??
Thanks,
John
Click to expand...


It's not always a true 36in. Tooling can take up space, an depending on how the carraige is setup you may not have full range of motion with it. I'm sure there are more reasons I'm missing, but these jump out at Me on first thought.:) Oh, some people might would have different thoughts regarding gear driven or belt driven as well. Greg
 
The 36" or 40" is center to center distance. If you use a chuck, you can subtract the width of the chuck from the usable distance. The travel of the carriage is also usually 5" or so less than the center to center distance. That spec, the carriage travel, is almost always listed in the ad for the machine.

I have one of the cheaper no-name imports that I bought from a machinery supply local to me. Like rhncue stated, a lot of the difference is in the details and the fit and finish. My machine was painted after it was assembled. Hence, there was paint covering most of the screws, and even paint "gluing" the two halves of the taillstock together, that are meant to slide in order to cut a taper. Most of the edges on my machine were sharp. I spent a lot of time with a file chamfering the sharp edges.

At work, we have a Jet lathe. It just works MUCH smoother than mine. The fit and finish are great. You can feel the difference as soon as you turn any of the knobs or handwheels. Everything just works much smoother.

If I did it again, I would probably buy a Jet lathe or an Enco for a bit more. Spending an extra thousand now for a tool you will have forever is money well spent in my opinion.

You can also go the used American machine route, but if you get a lathe with a lot of wear, you will be worse off than a new Chinese lathe.
 
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thirty six inch bed

Thirty six inches usually means a thirty six inch bed out past the spindle. Do you want to use a chuck? take that away from the thirty-six inches. What you want to use a tail stock too? Take that from your thirty six inches too. You have to be sure what you are buying. You can usually get right against a chuck but you sometimes can not run all of the way to the tailstock without interference with it in short.

Hu

cue-healer said:
If cue sticks are less than 60" a shaft being 28"-30" and same for butt why then do you need a 40" lathe. 36" wouldnt work??
Thanks,
John
Click to expand...
 
I have to disagree

I have to disagree. It may depend on the Jet you buy but I had a 13X40, the lower end gear drive. It was like sausage, you really didn't want to know what was inside it. Very poor sand castings that were apparently custom fit with a coarse wheel on a side grinder and horrible tolerances. It had body filler that didn't make it to a corner on the outside too. It leaked oil also. All in all seemingly no better than any other brand as far as the machine went.

What Jet does have is an outstanding service department and good warranty the last I knew. Their resale value is also best. Another plus is that Jet has dealers so you can price shop and get one for little more than a Grizzly occasionally.

I run a larger Jet sometimes, 18x 60 I believe, and it seems like a nice machine. I have never had cause to go inside it though or I might be equally unhappy with it as the one I did have to repair.

Hu


Dick[/QUOTE]

rhncue said:
Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I believe there is a pecking order in the equipment that comes out of China. Jet is about on top of the list and then there are other companies such as Enco, Birmingham, Grizzly, H/F and others right on down the line. I believe Jet pays the most and gets the pick of the crop. What they turn down goes to the next highest bidder and so on until you reach the H/F and Speedway catagories. When you buy a Jet you get a clean, imported lathe with good castings all trued and ready to run. A H/F lathe will come with sand in the bearings, castings filled with bondo, cosmoline everywhere and not very trued up. If you are handy with tools and don't mind getting dirty, you can buy a H/F lathe or mill, take it apart, clean it up real good especially in the out of the way places such as inside the gear boxes and the bearings and then reassemble making sure everything is tweaked for precision and then the H/F lathe is as good as the Jet but you will save 1500 to 2000.00.

If you want a good turn key lathe then buy a Jet. If you want to save money then buy a H/F but if a H/F is purchased you should expect to take some time cleanining and setting up or it's not going to run very true or last very long.

I've got many H/F tools that I've reworked and they work as good as much more expensive tools. My H/F band saw works as good as any 14" band saw on the market. Took a few hours of tuning and a good blade but I cut my inlay wood and Ivory to within a couple of ths.. My lathes are all American made except for a 13 X 36 Enco and a 12 X 40 Jet. I've had the Enco for 15 yrs. and runs out less than a .001 and the Jet was built in 83 and runs just as true. A little kerosine, a file, a good precision level and a little common sense can do wonders on setting up machinery properly.

Dick
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
What Jet does have is an outstanding service department and good warranty the last I knew. Their resale value is also best. Another plus is that Jet has dealers so you can price shop and get one for little more than a Grizzly occasionally.
Click to expand...
I heard that one thing Jet has, that other imports do not, is they use inch gears as opposed to metric gears. The way I was told, with the others "TPI" is only an approximate metric equivalent. Does anyone know if that is true?

Tracy
 
RSB-Refugee said:
I heard that one thing Jet has, that other imports do not, is they use inch gears as opposed to metric gears. The way I was told, with the others "TPI" is only an approximate metric equivalent. Does anyone know if that is true?

Tracy
Click to expand...

I don't think that is true. On my Enco and my Jet normal gearing and threads are used. It is true that when Metric threads are used on the half/nut drive you can't get precise English or ASE threads though. Same thing in reverse, Even though the lathes claim to cut both Metric ans ASE by changing gears actually they won't cut the Metric Precisely. It all depends on the pitch on your half/nut, Metric or ASE.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
I don't think that is true. On my Enco and my Jet normal gearing and threads are used. It is true that when Metric threads are used on the half/nut drive you can't get precise English or ASE threads though. Same thing in reverse, Even though the lathes claim to cut both Metric ans ASE by changing gears actually they won't cut the Metric Precisely. It all depends on the pitch on your half/nut, Metric or ASE.

Dick
Click to expand...
Thanks Dick, that makes a lot more sense, than the way I heard it.

Tracy
 
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