Metal rings.. Popping. Alternatives?

ddadams

ddadams

Absolutely love this cue.
Silver Member
Are there any alternatives to get a shiny ring material besides metal in a cue?

I've had a couple and no matter how room temperature I keep the cues in the long run it seems that you can feel the rings even slightly.

Are there alternative materials cuemakers can use to get a nice silver/gold shine from "rings" without using metal?
 
Have you tried the 'search' function on this site?
Your question comes up quite frequently.
Almost as much as "what's my cue worth?".
Redundancy is so passe'.

KJ
 
I always check the metal rings when I see someone playing with a cue with them. I have found that only about 10% are still flat with the finish. (just my personal guesstimate)

Most cues with metal rings have moved at least a little... The discussion goes on as to whether the wood or the metal moves. There appears to be less movement of the metal ring when sandwiched between phenolic or plastic.

If you don't want to feel them...... don't use them. It seems that most people don't mind if you can feel the metal rings in their cue any way.

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I always check the metal rings when I see someone playing with a cue with them. I have found that only about 10% are still flat with the finish. (just my personal guesstimate)

Most cues with metal rings have moved at least a little... The discussion goes on as to whether the wood or the metal moves. There appears to be less movement of the metal ring when sandwiched between phenolic or plastic.

If you don't want to feel them...... don't use them. It seems that most people don't mind if you can feel the metal rings in their cue any way.

Kim
Click to expand...
Kim,

I agree - they are not in the stroke or grip area of the cue. It's just another of those mental things like "OMG, my cue is warped 1/100th of an inch - it will make me shoot badly"

Gary
 
whammo57 said:
I always check the metal rings when I see someone playing with a cue with them. I have found that only about 10% are still flat with the finish. (just my personal guesstimate)

Most cues with metal rings have moved at least a little... The discussion goes on as to whether the wood or the metal moves. There appears to be less movement of the metal ring when sandwiched between phenolic or plastic.

If you don't want to feel them...... don't use them. It seems that most people don't mind if you can feel the metal rings in their cue any way.

Kim
Click to expand...

Not to be a nit, but... The National Bureau of Standards MIGHT have
a device that could detect the expansion/ contraction of metal rings.
In the meantime, 99.99999999% of the cause of 'ring pop' is due to the
movement of wood.

BTW - IIUC, the OP is not a cuemaker. Your idea about sandwiching the
metal between phenolic rings is a good one. Have you tried undercutting
the metel?

Dale
 
Last edited:
whammo57 said:
[...]

Most cues with metal rings have moved at least a little... The discussion goes on as to whether the wood or the metal moves. There appears to be less movement of the metal ring when sandwiched between phenolic or plastic.
[...]
Click to expand...

The metal doesn't move enough to cause this; if it DID then there would be rings that "pop" for part of the year but then recede again as the seasons change. If you believe otherwise then two things are true:

1) you think metal can only expand with changes in its immediate environment, but can never "shrink"; and

2) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you

The phenomenon of metal rings "popping" is caused by a combination of non-metal materials "shrinking" and the finished being absorbed into their [relatively] porous surface as it cures (many don't realize that finish is continuously curing over a period of weeks or even months). Meanwhile, the metal cannot absorb anything, so the finish remains "thicker" on those surfaces.

The solution - simple, albeit annoying - is time. The actual amount that the finish is "raised" over the metal components is miniscule, and in most cases can be resolved by simply re-sanding and polishing the finish a few months after it's first been applied. By then the non-metal materials are mostly done absorbing/shrinking, and the finish should [usually] be thick enough to sand/buff down without exposing a raw metal surface.

TW
 
I have seen numerous discussions about his.


But the OP asked a question I have never seen asked and nobody answered it. How and why the phenomenon occurs wasn't even the topic I think.

He asked about alternative materials. I am curious......




.
 
Chopdoc said:
I have seen numerous discussions about his.


But the OP asked a question I have never seen asked and nobody answered it. How and why the phenomenon occurs wasn't even the topic I think.

He asked about alternative materials. I am curious......




.
Click to expand...

Juma, phenolic, wood, plastic
Nothing shiny that I can think of
 
pdcue said:
Not to be a nit, but... The National Bureau of Standards MIGHT have
a device that could detect the expansion/ contraction of metal rings.
In the meantime, 99.99999999% of the cause of 'ring pop' is due to the
movement of wood.

BTW - IIUC, the OP is not a cuemaker. Your idea about sandwiching the
metal between phenolic rings is a good one. Have you tried undercutting
the metel?

Dale
Click to expand...

I have filed them, cut them, sanded them.... you can feel some... some you can't... Sometimes, even a fiber ring will pop a little..........

I too believe that the wood is moving and not the metal ring......

I guess they are too pretty to stop using them.......... so we will keep trying and keep using them...........

Kim
 
KJ Cues said:
Have you tried the 'search' function on this site?
Your question comes up quite frequently.
Almost as much as "what's my cue worth?".
Redundancy is so passe'.

KJ
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension is pretty key.

I'm not asking about how to prevent the rings from popping.

I'm asking if there's anything synthetic or alternative that will give a shiny luster similar to metal that won't pop in a similar fashion.

But cool. I'll try to use this "search" function one day. Maybe I'll figure out what the "post" button is one day too but I don't want to stretch my limited thinking capabilities.
 
Thomas Wayne said:


The metal doesn't move enough to cause this; if it DID then there would be rings that "pop" for part of the year but then recede again as the seasons change. If you believe otherwise then two things are true:

1) you think metal can only expand with changes in its immediate environment, but can never "shrink"; and

2) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you

The phenomenon of metal rings "popping" is caused by a combination of non-metal materials "shrinking" and the finished being absorbed into their [relatively] porous surface as it cures (many don't realize that finish is continuously curing over a period of weeks or even months). Meanwhile, the metal cannot absorb anything, so the finish remains "thicker" on those surfaces.

The solution - simple, albeit annoying - is time. The actual amount that the finish is "raised" over the metal components is miniscule, and in most cases can be resolved by simply re-sanding and polishing the finish a few months after it's first been applied. By then the non-metal materials are mostly done absorbing/shrinking, and the finish should [usually] be thick enough to sand/buff down without exposing a raw metal surface.

TW
Click to expand...

*Bing* Winner, winner, Alaskan Crab dinner..

Reminds me of the line in my cousin Vinny... "You mean to tell me that the laws of physics ceases to exist in your kitchen.." (slight paraphrase)

JV
 
ddadams said:
Reading comprehension is pretty key.

I'm not asking about how to prevent the rings from popping.

I'm asking if there's anything synthetic or alternative that will give a shiny luster similar to metal that won't pop in a similar fashion.

But cool. I'll try to use this "search" function one day. Maybe I'll figure out what the "post" button is one day too but I don't want to stretch my limited thinking capabilities.
Click to expand...

Your initial post suggested to me that you weren't happy with the fact that you could feel the rings.
Had you done a search you would have learned that this topic has been discussed at great length many times.
During those discussions, methods and techniques were disclosed that would minimize if not eliminate the problem.
Also discussed were some of the causes and alternatives. Knowing what causes a problem can help eliminate a problem.
My guess is that if you couldn't feel the rings, then you'd like them.

Obviously you're not happy that you can feel the rings so you want
something instead that looks like metal rings but yet isn't metal rings.
There is none unless you want to consider decals or a silver Sharpie.
Guaranteed you won't feel the rings. Don't laugh, it's been done.

Without getting too deeply into your capabilities, let me suggest that
reading has the potential to lead you to an 'Ah-Ha' moment.

KJ
 
ddadams said:
Are there any alternatives to get a shiny ring material besides metal in a cue?

I've had a couple and no matter how room temperature I keep the cues in the long run it seems that you can feel the rings even slightly.

Are there alternative materials cuemakers can use to get a nice silver/gold shine from "rings" without using metal?
Click to expand...

Sorry... everyone goes off on a tangent whenever this subject comes up..........

I don't know of any material that will give the same shine as metal that is not metal...........

I wish there was...

Kim
 
KJ Cues said:
Your initial post suggested to me that you weren't happy with the fact that you could feel the rings.
Had you done a search you would have learned that this topic has been discussed at great length many times.
During those discussions, methods and techniques were disclosed that would minimize if not eliminate the problem.
Also discussed were some of the causes and alternatives. Knowing what causes a problem can help eliminate a problem.
My guess is that if you couldn't feel the rings, then you'd like them.

Obviously you're not happy that you can feel the rings so you want
something instead that looks like metal rings but yet isn't metal rings.
There is none unless you want to consider decals or a silver Sharpie.
Guaranteed you won't feel the rings. Don't laugh, it's been done.

Without getting too deeply into your capabilities, let me suggest that
reading has the potential to lead you to an 'Ah-Ha' moment.

KJ
Click to expand...


I need a guide for the reading part.

Where is the search button? Never seen it. Or the "register" button to make an account.
 
You could cut a shallow groove and fill it with a metallic paint. I've never seen it done for a ring, but it is used often(not metallic that I know of though) for giving color to lettering after engraving...
 
I don't think you will find anything that "looks" like metal rings. The best thing to do is to take steps to prevent this phenomena.

-Make sure your wood is seasoned
-Make sure you scuff the metal rings.
-Surround it with non-wood material, if possible.
-use good adhesives.
-seal the surrounding wood with an epoxy before the first coat of finish to minimize shrinkage.
-Take extra time when finishing. Let it sit and fully cure.
 
Has anyone ever tried inlace?? It's an epoxy resin with metal dust mixed in. I don't think it would look like a metal ring.

Kim
 
Metalized mylar tape ?

Dave <-- not a cuemaker ... barely a cueuser
 
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