Meucci: Throw Vs Deflection

[Patrick Johnson]

I have seen the inside of a few Meucci's over the years. Not many, maybe only 3 or 4, as they were already out of favor in my area when I got into cue repair.

They do have construction techniques to limit squirt. The ferrules are lighter weight than most of the composite ferrules today that have some sort of fiber in them. The wall of the ferrule is significantly thinner than ferrules on most other shafts. The ferrule slips over the tenon with a slip fit.

On their more recent shafts, the tenon design is tapered like the front of a #2 pencil, yet the internal walls of the ferrule remain parallel. This creates an intentional gap and subsequent void between the tenon and the ferrule.

Both of these designs make the front end mass of a Meucci shaft less than conventional shafts.

Pretty similar to how I hear Predator ferrules work...

Do you think this is how all Meuccis are made, or only some models?

pj
chgo

 

[TheThaiger]

Arnaldo:

This is exactly the difference in opinion between snooker and pool players. As you know from pool, it's desirable to wear the tip uniformly around the edges. In snooker, because the cue is oriented the same way each time (i.e. an Ash cue is oriented "chevrons up" -- the ash wood grain's chevrons facing up), and also due to orienting the chamfer or bevel-/chisel-face cut on the butt to be facing upwards in the palm. The answer there is that they *want* the tip to wear according to the player's shooting style -- compression spots intact.

It's just a difference in opinion. Honestly, I don't think it matters, as long as you have good tip maintenance skills. Which, I think is a dying art due to everyone buying these laminated tips that, more often, are requiring that you take the cue to a skilled repairman for anything but the most basic shaping and scuffing jobs. Folks are losing their ability to completely maintain their cue's tip -- including removal and reinstallation.

-Sean

I know many very good players who've never changed a tip, or even shaped one. I don't think that's changed since I first picked up a cue 30 years ago.

There was a big deal made of O'Sullivan's tip at the latest World's, which led to a lot of comments/anecdotes about tip changing in the commentary box, with the consensus that players play and cue makers repair. Stephen Hendry said he'd never touched a tip in his life and wouldn't have a clue what to do.

So I doubt it's a 'dying art', more 'same as it ever was'. Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Pretty similar to how I hear Predator ferrules work...

Do you think this is how all Meuccis are made, or only some models?

pj
chgo

I'm not certain. I only saw a few of them personally.

I'll add the older thin walled design was uncapped.

The later design with the tapered tenon used a capped ferrule.

 

[TheThaiger]

Throw (as I know it) is a factor of the cue ball.
Deflection is the shaft.

randyg

That's what I thought, hence the question. I'm sure I've seen the claim they're engineered to reduce throw several times now, and it struck me as being odd.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The later design with the tapered tenon used a capped ferrule.

I think the Predator is/was too.

Was the tip end of the ferrule completely unattached from the tenon, free to give sideways on impact?

pj
chgo

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Can't say that I know much about Meuccis other than the PP 1 with a Black Dot that I have. Its one cue that I wouldn't sell. Real whippy but once you get the hang of it, it plays very well. Very little deflection. I have been known to make some pretty wild shots with it. 50% luck and 50% skill sometimes but I ain't telling no one.

I got mine on EBay for IIRC $180. Came with a bent pin but not enuff to
worry about.

I think Meucci makes a Rainbow colored one that you may find suits your needs.

JK.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I think the Predator is/was too.

Was the tip end of the ferrule completely unattached from the tenon, free to give sideways on impact?

pj
chgo

The rear portion of the tenon was parallel, and the ferrule was a slip fit over this section (there might have even been a few turns of threads here, I can't remember). Then, the front portion of the tenon was tapered. I think the start of the tapered section of the tenon was roughly in the middle of its length.

Yes, the ferrule was free to move sideways on the tenon (if the ferrule's walls flexed), but only on the front portion of the ferrule where it had clearance with the tenon.

So the Meuuci design removes mass between the ferrule and the tenon. The predator model removes mass inside the tenon. There is much more overall mass removed by the predator design, as the hole (of two diameters) extends several inches inside the shaft. The Meucci design is only about a 1/2" long.

That said, right near the tip, I don't know which design reduces mass more. Although we can probably speculate that the Predator design is more effective, as most published reports show it as having a longer pivot length. How accurate those results are are another topic...

 

[AtLarge]

... Also IMO, the black dots were better shafts. MOre consistant and less deflection and a very sold feeling hit. Obviously the construction method by todays standards have lead to many wild assumptions about them but they were a very good shaft IMO and I could easily play one today.

Meucci's standard shaft today is still the 35-layer, flat-laminated Black Dot Bullseye shaft. They will sell an 11 1/4 mm Ultimate Weapon shaft for an additional charge, but the black-dot shafts are still the standard.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't know which design reduces mass more.

It must be the design that removes more mass: Predator's several inches of hollow shaft.

pj
chgo

 

[RRfireblade]

Meucci's standard shaft today is still the 35-layer, flat-laminated Black Dot Bullseye shaft. They will sell an 11 1/4 mm Ultimate Weapon shaft for an additional charge, but the black-dot shafts are still the standard.

I'm talking about 'industry' standards e.i. Radial laminations vs flat.

 

[OneIron]

Pretty similar to how I hear Predator ferrules work...

Do you think this is how all Meuccis are made, or only some models?

pj
chgo

The Cameo has the tapered tenon. But the older ones don't. Most of the ones I've repaired had the oversized tenon with a thin walled slip on ferrule. Makes for a nice hit but they have a tendency to split due to the thin wall.

 

[OneIron]

The rear portion of the tenon was parallel, and the ferrule was a slip fit over this section (there might have even been a few turns of threads here, I can't remember). Then, the front portion of the tenon was tapered. I think the start of the tapered section of the tenon was roughly in the middle of its length.

Yes, the ferrule was free to move sideways on the tenon (if the ferrule's walls flexed), but only on the front portion of the ferrule where it had clearance with the tenon.

So the Meuuci design removes mass between the ferrule and the tenon. The predator model removes mass inside the tenon. There is much more overall mass removed by the predator design, as the hole (of two diameters) extends several inches inside the shaft. The Meucci design is only about a 1/2" long.

That said, right near the tip, I don't know which design reduces mass more. Although we can probably speculate that the Predator design is more effective, as most published reports show it as having a longer pivot length. How accurate those results are are another topic...

That's the design I saw on the Meucci Cameo but I don't think the tenon was actually threaded. It just had concentric circles cut in the tenon. I suppose to help with glue bonding. In the case of the one I repaired, the factory had failed to use any glue.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I don't know which design reduces mass more.

It must be the design that removes more mass: Predator's several inches of hollow shaft.

pj
chgo

The full quote was "...right near the tip, I don't know which design reduces mass more". See below.

What I was trying to get at, is I know from tests done by several of the squirt gurus, the reduced mass is only affective in the first approximate 6 to 7 inches of shaft length. What would be the ideal distribution of that mass reduction? The Meucci "might" (I did not measure) reduce more mass in the first half inch behind the tip than the Predator design. But the Predator design reduces more overall mass. Its obvious in the case of these two shafts the Predator design is overall more affective in reducing squirt. But there is probably a point where less mass removed closer to the tip is more affective overall in squirt reduction than more mass removed further than the tip. By playing around with this, it might be possible to construct an overall heavier shaft (that some players prefer), with very low squirt. Or the subjective "hit" characteristics may be tuned to a specific type.

That said, right near the tip, I don't know which design reduces mass more. Although we can probably speculate that the Predator design is more effective, as most published reports show it as having a longer pivot length. How accurate those results are are another topic...