Mika Best I've every saw in 60 years.

[branpureza]

Lets not forget about Worst......Efren in his prime would have been in the WORST nightmare of his life......

I'd agree with what Mikas doing is like Archer, Earl, Seigal and such but he's no Lassiter

-Grey Ghost-

Haha that's ridiculous... Harold Worst would be a nightmare for Efren in his prime? Efren could beat him easily right now.

I have more respect for Lassiter's game than anyone (we are from the same town) but the players from yesterday are no match for the ones of today.

Every generation gets better... in every sport.

 

[Cameron Smith]

You make an interesting point here but does it also work in reverse?
This example is not based on rotation but goes as follows:

Efren has never run 526 balls in straight pool. Perhaps he doesn't have the "knowledge" that Mosconi had. Does that mean that Efren could not beat Mosconi?

Just another thought for your careful consideration.

Thanks

Not quite the same thing. Harold, Luther and Efren all played and competed at 9 ball. Efren only ever dabbled to a small degree at 14.1...but I don't think Efren could ever have beaten Mosconi at straight pool in 500+ point match. Unless of course he dedicated a signifcant portion of his playing career to it.

I didn't see the match, but isn't the point that Mika is PLAYING the best 9 ball Danny has seen in 60 years, rather BEING the best player he seen in 60 years? I'm a bit confused at the statement, but it's hard to argue that Mika isn't the best tournament player in the world right now.

 

[sjm]

Stu, how did you calculate that? I checked the CPI's -- 18.1 for July, 1945 and 218.0 for July, 2010, or about 1:12. So $300,000 then was about $3,600,000 now. Spread that over seven years and it's "only" about $514,000 per year.

Perhaps the answer is that you are accounting for taxes somehow, too.

Did Lassiter handle his money wisely?

When looking at earnings power, I go by income per capita figures. Clearly, there are many ways of approaching comparison, and mine is just one. The 1945 income per capita in America was $1,223 which means that Lassiter made about 40 times that by year in the six year period 1942-48. By comparison, income per capital in Ameirca in 2009 was $39,138, so anyone earning 40 times that would be earning about $1.5 million per year.

Put another way, income per capita today is over 30 times what is was back then.

 

[sjm]

..... isn't the point that Mika is PLAYING the best 9 ball Danny has seen in 60 years, rather BEING the best player he seen in 60 years? I'm a bit confused at the statement, but it's hard to argue that Mika isn't the best tournament player in the world right now.

I think this is exactly the point. The nine ball Mika has played over the last two to three years represents the most dominant run of sustained excellence in nine ball since Lassiter, whose greatest run of nine ball dominance was, indeed, some sixty years ago.

 

[inside_english]

You're almost right, Johnnyt. Here's how it went, inning by inning:

Inning 1:

• Immonen broke and ran 6 games, then broke dry in game #7. Score: 6-0.
• Klatt made 5 balls, then played safe. Score 6-0.

Inning 2:

• Immonen slopped in the 8-ball while shooting the 6-ball, then missed a jump shot on the 6-ball. Score: 6-0.
• Klatt ran out the 7th game, then broke and ran 3 games, then broke dry in game #11. Score: 6-4.

Inning 3:

• Immonen played safe. Score: 6-4.
• Klatt made a kick hit on the 1-ball, but left a shot. Score: 6-4.

Inning 4:

• Immonen ran out game #11, then broke and ran 4 games. Score: 11-4.

No missed shots for Klapp. One missed shot for Immonen. One dry break for each player.

Your stats are awesome.

 

[PhilosopherKing]

I am a bit curious regarding the level of the great players from the past, since I have never seen them play. You mention Harold Worst, and sjm in an earlier post mentions Lassiter as possibly the best ever.

I believe most people agree that when Efren came to US, he introduced a new level of play with his kick shots and kick safeties. From that I conclude that american players (and the rest of the world) had not seen such high level rail first play before, and eventually learned to change their game from "hit and hope" to something more sophisticated in the kicking area.

That has to mean that Lassiter and Worst did not have that weapon in their arsenal? Or else I suppose other players would have picked it up long before Efren came along?

And if they didnt have that knowledge, there is no way they could have beaten the Mikas and the Efrens of today.

1-pocket players have been using kick safeties since the beginning of time... Efren didn't invent them. Also, please consider that 9-ball was being played by different rules in the past.

 

[Mr441]

1-pocket players have been using kick safeties since the beginning of time... Efren didn't invent them. Also, please consider that 9-ball was being played by different rules in the past.

Exactly. Ronnie Allen could really kick well, he was the original "magician" in my eyes.

 

[PoolBum]

I believe most people agree that when Efren came to US, he introduced a new level of play with his kick shots and kick safeties. From that I conclude that american players (and the rest of the world) had not seen such high level rail first play before, and eventually learned to change their game from "hit and hope" to something more sophisticated in the kicking area.

That has to mean that Lassiter and Worst did not have that weapon in their arsenal? Or else I suppose other players would have picked it up long before Efren came along?

And if they didnt have that knowledge, there is no way they could have beaten the Mikas and the Efrens of today.

And yet the american players, like Sigel, Strickland, Hall, and Varner, more often than not beat Efren and Jose. This means that they must have adapted their games and learned how to execute the kick shots and the kick safeties.

If they did it successfully, I see no reason why Lassiter and Worst couldn't do it. (Especially Worst, for god's sake he was a three-cushion world champion! Do you really think he couldn't learn how to kick?)

 

[mcmlb55]

I am a bit curious regarding the level of the great players from the past, since I have never seen them play. You mention Harold Worst, and sjm in an earlier post mentions Lassiter as possibly the best ever.

I believe most people agree that when Efren came to US, he introduced a new level of play with his kick shots and kick safeties. From that I conclude that american players (and the rest of the world) had not seen such high level rail first play before, and eventually learned to change their game from "hit and hope" to something more sophisticated in the kicking area.

That has to mean that Lassiter and Worst did not have that weapon in their arsenal? Or else I suppose other players would have picked it up long before Efren came along?

And if they didnt have that knowledge, there is no way they could have beaten the Mikas and the Efrens of today.

Best. Post. Ever. Period.

 

[mcmlb55]

You make an interesting point here but does it also work in reverse?
This example is not based on rotation but goes as follows:

Efren has never run 526 balls in straight pool. Perhaps he doesn't have the "knowledge" that Mosconi had. Does that mean that Efren could not beat Mosconi?

Just another thought for your careful consideration.

Thanks

The. Worst. Comeback. Ever.

 

[delano]

I think if efren won a lot of those consecutive runner ups in the US open, it would have cemented his legacy better... but that's too late now. Still impressive though.

 

[gromulan]

Mosconi's 16 year reigin as world champion, losing the title only one year during that time.

Mizerak's 5 consecutive U.S open 14.1 titles.

Reyes' one pocket dominance.

Mike Sigel's whole career. He's still the best all-around player I've ever seen.

How about Joe Davis, world champ for 20 consecutive years and never beaten by anyone?

 

[Mr441]

How about Joe Davis, world champ for 20 consecutive years and never beaten by anyone?

I thought he was just referring to pool. Outside of pool I would have picked Walter Lindrum's complete dominance of english billiards.