Mika V De Luna Controversy....

[tim913]

Was Mika acting in this manor back when he was winning majors as well?

Yep

 

[MattPoland]

Regarding behaviors...

1. Ref applied an amateur ruling to a professional event
2. DeLuna proceeded at the direction of the ref (appropriate)
3. Mika protested emphatically (appropriate)
4. DeLuna sat down (appropriate)
5. Mika sat down (appropriate)
6. Ref reversed his ruling (appropriate)
7. Mika screams "Yes" twice at a seated DeLuna (major unsportsmanlike conduct, should have been a foul)
8. DeLuna gets up to protest the reversal (nitty, perhaps motivated by #7, but he's allowed to)
9. Mika makes a show of calling each remaining ball (minor unsportsmanlike conduct, fair to let slide)
10. No handshake at the end (no surprise here)

Ignoring #1 for a second. For me #7 is the most egregious moment in the entire incident. If that didn't happen, it would have been #8.

 

[westcoast]

De Luna should be embarrassed for trying such a move. It was blatantly obvious what Mika was shooting at- no self-respecting pool player should try such a move

 

[Icon of Sin]

Regarding behaviors...

1. Ref applied an amateur ruling to a professional event
2. DeLuna proceeded at the direction of the ref (appropriate)
3. Mika protested emphatically (appropriate)
4. DeLuna sat down (appropriate)
5. Mika sat down (appropriate)
6. Ref reversed his ruling (appropriate)
7. Mika screams "Yes" twice at a seated DeLuna (major unsportsmanlike conduct, should have been a foul)
8. DeLuna gets up to protest the reversal (nitty, perhaps motivated by #7, but he's allowed to)
9. Mika makes a show of calling each remaining ball (minor unsportsmanlike conduct, fair to let slide)
10. No handshake at the end (no surprise here)

Ignoring #1 for a second. For me #7 is the most egregious moment in the entire incident. If that didn't happen, it would have been #8.

In regards to number 1 though... that might be a rule created by the TD/powers that be, that refs must call the foul if a shot is not called on a bank or combo.

And as devil's advocate, that would need to be brought up in the players meeting as well.. ie "Call your shots on banks and combos because if you don't the ref will call a foul".

 

[MattPoland]

In regards to number 1 though... that might be a rule created by the TD/powers that be, that refs must call the foul if a shot is not called on a bank or combo.

And as devil's advocate, that would need to be brought up in the players meeting as well.. ie "Call your shots on banks and combos because if you don't the ref will call a foul".

True that rule exceptions can be made at an event and would need to be announced at the players meeting. I think that’s not best done at world championship. It also would require a waiver from a WPA official.

 

[tim913]

Just curious, do they drug test the ref’s too or just the players?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Mika's behavior was VERY unsportsmanlike regardless of the reason.

 

[realtor1618]

Could someone explain to me why this was a foul in the first place whether he called it or not? He made a good hit and at worst pocketed the wrong ball. That is not a foul that I am aware of. That would only be a loss of turn or the opponents choice to give it back if they don’t like the shot themselves.

 

[OldOrvis]

maybe de luna is the shark that fedor was talking about with joe rogan? I watched the match live and personally did not see or hear mika call it. The announcers were talking as mika was planning the shot, so that may have drowned it out. There is obviously more to the story. De luna was very fidgety in the chair while mika was shooting throughout the match. He would be cleaning shaft, working on his tip etc while mika was down on a shot and facing his direction, which i find disrespectful. Even in my small insignificant league, when someone is shooting and i am in their line of sight, I freeze and hold still until they are finished. No hand shake at the end either. Even some old earl matches that had fights involved ended in hand shakes. The whole thing wasnt a good look for professional pool.

I dont really every notice anyone around the table and what they are doing .......I dont need any help being terrible lol

 

[MattPoland]

Could someone explain to me why this was a foul in the first place whether he called it or not? He made a good hit and at worst pocketed the wrong ball. That is not a foul that I am aware of. That would only be a loss of turn or the opponents choice to give it back if they don’t like the shot themselves.

I don't know this referee. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's qualified and has exercised sound judgement in numerous occasions in the past. But I think that was just a factor of him being ill prepared to handle this specific incident appropriately.

 

[MattPoland]

Makes you wonder. Appleton's behavior was worse but it was also behind the scenes. Mika's behavior was at the table on a broadcasted match. Matchroom slapped Appleton's hand harder than WPA did. Does Predator or WPA have any interest in assigning repercussions? I assume not.

 

[sjm]

Regarding behaviors...

1. Ref applied an amateur ruling to a professional event
2. DeLuna proceeded at the direction of the ref (appropriate)
3. Mika protested emphatically (appropriate)
4. DeLuna sat down (appropriate)
5. Mika sat down (appropriate)
6. Ref reversed his ruling (appropriate)
7. Mika screams "Yes" twice at a seated DeLuna (major unsportsmanlike conduct, should have been a foul)
8. DeLuna gets up to protest the reversal (nitty, perhaps motivated by #7, but he's allowed to)
9. Mika makes a show of calling each remaining ball (minor unsportsmanlike conduct, fair to let slide)
10. No handshake at the end (no surprise here)

Ignoring #1 for a second. For me #7 is the most egregious moment in the entire incident. If that didn't happen, it would have been #8.

Well said, but in my world, the biggest infraction is #10.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I don't really blame DeLuna for getting up and being ready to take the shot after the ref called a foul. It's a weird situation to imagine being in DeLuna's shoes if he clearly heard Mika call it and let the ref make it a foul anyway. But I don't know what DeLuna heard or not. I'm pretty sure I'd stick up for Mika in that situation even knowing it would be taking the L, but my livelihood doesn't depend upon pool, and being inclined to give it to Mika is probably a good indication it never should.

That said, DeLuna is known for sharking, and although I'm not sure how intentional his behavior during the match was, it bothered Mika.

Yeah Mika didn't handle the situation with grace. It would be better interpersonally if he did. That said, I've played Mika before and watched him a lot. He's what I would call a "person". He's normally a good person, a great competitor, passionate, and fair. But he also has emotions, and they can get the better of him. That's how most of us are.

Some of the clips floating around are edited. In the full match video, especially if you watch it to the end (after the match I’d over) deluna says many times Mika did not call it. Both to the ref and Mika.

 

[garczar]

It is Vegas. Put 'em in the octagon. Kinda like DeLuna to tap Mika out.

 

[ideologist]

My question wasn't as rhetorical as yours. Thanks for wasting the time though.

Because you were missing a key point. Was Mika acting snippy during professional events? No

Was Mika snipping at a whiny baby opponent? Yes

 

[madmartigan]

Regarding behaviors...

1. Ref applied an amateur ruling to a professional event
2. DeLuna proceeded at the direction of the ref (appropriate)
3. Mika protested emphatically (appropriate)
4. DeLuna sat down (appropriate)
5. Mika sat down (appropriate)
6. Ref reversed his ruling (appropriate)
7. Mika screams "Yes" twice at a seated DeLuna (major unsportsmanlike conduct, should have been a foul)
8. DeLuna gets up to protest the reversal (nitty, perhaps motivated by #7, but he's allowed to)
9. Mika makes a show of calling each remaining ball (minor unsportsmanlike conduct, fair to let slide)
10. No handshake at the end (no surprise here)

Ignoring #1 for a second. For me #7 is the most egregious moment in the entire incident. If that didn't happen, it would have been #8.

Agree with all of this. DeLuna wasn’t pulling a move, he was reacting to the ref calling foul. Perfectly within his rights.

To those saying DeLuna was sharking throughout the match 1. Please link some video with time stamps demonstrating this, I’d genuinely like to take a look. 2. Even if he were fidgeting in his chair during the match, it doesn’t excuse Mika’s shouting at DeLuna after the call (correctly) went his way.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Could someone explain to me why this was a foul in the first place whether he called it or not? He made a good hit and at worst pocketed the wrong ball. That is not a foul that I am aware of. That would only be a loss of turn or the opponents choice to give it back if they don’t like the shot themselves.

Yes it would only be a loss of turn. We are using the term foul loosely in this case.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Regarding the rules, CSI is incredibly explicit about this.
View attachment 690595

But this isn't governed by CSI rules, it's a WPA event governed by world standardized rules. These rules are far less explicit and significantly more lax.
View attachment 690596

It does say the shooter "should" call the shot "if there is any chance of confusion". This is very soft wording. It acts more like guidance. If Mika had called it clearly and audibly, there's no confusion. But it doesn't mean he must call it. It doesn't mean it's mandatory. It didn't use the word "must". If the ref is satisfied with the intention of the shot, it doesn't need to be called. A kick, combo, or carom may be considered obvious under WPA as long as the referee is satisfied.

So this begs the question. Was the ref satisfied that the intended ball was made? Perhaps not because he called foul (which wasn't the right term anyway). But was he not satisfied because he was unclear of Mika's intentions? Or was he not satisfied because he was operating under the interpretation that calling the combo was mandatory? I assume the latter. Because if it was just that he was unsure of the shot to be played, why didn't he ask for a call like the rules indicate he has prerogative to do? And I doubt he actually was unsure of Mika's intentions because the shot actually was obvious. So much so that the commentators called what it was before Mika shot it. If the ref really was unsure of Mika's intentions then I would posit he's an inept ref. But to give the ref the benefit of the doubt, I think it's more likely he was applying CSI (amateur) rules to a WPA (pro) event. Which may also be a form of ineptitude but much more reasonable why that could occur.

Wow, great points. I haven’t read the “official WPA” rules in decades. Their language is soft as you say. Seems to be intentional. Seems to mean to me that as long as the ref is satisfied he knows what the player is attempting, the player does not need to call. Even for combo/bank/carom.

 

[ChicagoJoe]

Because you were missing a key point. Was Mika acting snippy during professional events? No

Was Mika snipping at a whiny baby opponent? Yes

Definitely seen Mika acting snippy at professional events, unprovoked (or actually caused by him missing a shot). For whatever reason, that video was edited to remove his outburst.

 

[realtor1618]

Agree with all of this. DeLuna wasn’t pulling a move, he was reacting to the ref calling foul. Perfectly within his rights.

To those saying DeLuna was sharking throughout the match 1. Please link some video with time stamps demonstrating this, I’d genuinely like to take a look. 2. Even if he were fidgeting in his chair during the match, it doesn’t excuse Mika’s shouting at DeLuna after the call (correctly) went his way.

And Mika is anything but a statue when he is in his chair. If anything, he could be called Captain Fidget at times.