Mika V De Luna Controversy....

It's funny. Some know Mika pulled some BS in the past and feel he gets unfairly scrutinized in these situations. Some know DeLuna pulled some BS in the past and feel he gets unfairly scrutinized in these situations. And some of us know they've both pulled some BS in the past and can look at the situation a bit more objectively in terms of what Mika, DeLuna and the ref did throughout the interaction.
 
There's no question the rule was combo had to be called since the referee is there to enforce it. Mika is also stating he called it (i.e., he's aware of the rules) as you hear him repeating say "I said 9 ball" many times to contest. The only issue IMHO is Mika shouting at DeLuna. Had Mika missed thereafter, the aggressive shouting clearly agitated DeLuna. WPA will probably have a chat with him about that.

Controversy aside... This has been a great event. The multiple live streams (free, been perfect), replays, camera crew, venue, time clock on the TV table (soft warning), race to 8, now final 32 race to 10, quiet crowd, prize fund, and commentary deserves a positive nod. I'm also liking that the breaks haven't been working and there's more battling back and forth.

-Doug
 
dchan320 said:
There's no question the rule was combo had to be called since the referee is there to enforce it. Mika is also stating he called it (i.e., he's aware of the rules) as you hear him repeating say "I said 9 ball" many times to contest. The only issue IMHO is Mika shouting at DeLuna. Had Mika missed thereafter, the aggressive shouting clearly agitated DeLuna. WPA will probably have a chat with him about that.

Controversy aside... This has been a great event. The multiple live streams (free, been perfect), replays, camera crew, venue, time clock on the TV table (soft warning), race to 8, now final 32 race to 10, quiet crowd, prize fund, and commentary deserves a positive nod. I'm also liking that the breaks haven't been working and there's more battling back and forth.

-Doug
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I actually question that. The WPA rules are worded in such a way that offers interpretation that combos don't need to be called if they are obvious and the referee can ascertain the player's intention. The WPA rule only suggests calling combos to avoid confusion. And of course if Mika had clearly and audibly called it, there would have been no confusion. But the debate is still open to suggest he didn't need to call it.
 
MattPoland said:
I actually question that. The WPA rules are worded in such a way that offers interpretation that combos don't need to be called if they are obvious and the referee can ascertain the player's intention. The WPA rule only suggests calling combos to avoid confusion. And of course if Mika had clearly and audibly called it, there would have been no confusion. But the debate is still open to suggest he didn't need to call it.
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Right, here are those rules again from WPA:
9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls

Whenever the shooter is attempting to pocket a ball (except the break) he is required to call
shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious.
Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant.
For a called shot to count, the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made, so if
there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, combination and similar shots, the shooter
should indicate the ball and pocket. If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be
played, he may ask for a call.
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That combination was as obvious as a straight in shot. The referee must have been “satisfied that the intended shot was made.”
 
MattPoland said:
I actually question that. The WPA rules are worded in such a way that offers interpretation that combos don't need to be called if they are obvious and the referee can ascertain the player's intention. The WPA rule only suggests calling combos to avoid confusion. And of course if Mika had clearly and audibly called it, there would have been no confusion. But the debate is still open to suggest he didn't need to call it.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at the ref, but do not disagree with your comment. :)
 
edwu said:
Mika Immonen very angry at De Luna during this match. What do you guys think? Seems there is more to the story than this clip...

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Mika strained his wrist with his greatest hand filling. It's hard for him to control himself.
 
dchan320 said:
This has been a great event. The multiple live streams (free, been perfect), replays, camera crew,
Click to expand...

If you're talking about those endless slow motion instant replays chalk me down with the people who absolutely hate them.
I wish more events were like the Accu-Stats... almost no slow motion replays.
Not using them feels, to me, like it lets me more into the match, more involved, and allows me to see the rhythm of each player, all uninterrupted instead of only keeping the viewer focused on the shots.
I love watching the players as the ponder what to do, prepping for a shot etc.
On You Tube it's very easy to do those slow motion replays anyway.
One can even take it to the extreme and go frame by frame by using the <> buttons.
 
edwu said:
Mika Immonen very angry at De Luna during this match. What do you guys think? Seems there is more to the story than this clip...

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Cheap move by De Luna.* I don't blame Mika, but he should be more professional. I might do the same. If it was Earl, half of you would be saying something different. The truth is, there are shots that don't need calling, but some think we need a damn lawyer to play this game. The rule should be changed to the obvious pocket and as players, we all know what that is. Call the ones that are not on a vector to the closest pocket.

* I retract this statement. After watching the video again, I see that the ref called the foul first and not De Luna. I initially thought De Luna initiated the first interaction. Again, I stand with common sense on what ball is intended. Even the commentators called the combo.
 
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dchan320 said:
There's no question the rule was combo had to be called since the referee is there to enforce it. Mika is also stating he called it (i.e., he's aware of the rules) as you hear him repeating say "I said 9 ball" many times to contest. The only issue IMHO is Mika shouting at DeLuna. Had Mika missed thereafter, the aggressive shouting clearly agitated DeLuna. WPA will probably have a chat with him about that.

Controversy aside... This has been a great event. The multiple live streams (free, been perfect), replays, camera crew, venue, time clock on the TV table (soft warning), race to 8, now final 32 race to 10, quiet crowd, prize fund, and commentary deserves a positive nod. I'm also liking that the breaks haven't been working and there's more battling back and forth.

-Doug
Click to expand...
WPA rules state that it "should" be called, not that it must be called.
 
I suppose whatever interpretation of the rules was made explicit in the player’s meeting or documents given to them would be the proper interpretation, if it even was made explicit.
 
BRussell said:
Right, here are those rules again from WPA:


That combination was as obvious as a straight in shot. The referee must have been “satisfied that the intended shot was made.”
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Thanks @BRussell for posting the rule again. I take back what I said earlier as really the last line on the rule sort of hit home with me "If the referee or opponent is unsure of the shot to be played, he may ask for a call." Would make sense if the 9ball was in between a carom or combo, but that wasn't the case here.

Seeing how the ref didn't ask for a call, nor did DeLuna - looking more like a bad call by the ref. Mika addressing the 7 ball, he's letting the ref know he's not happy.

-Doug
 
BRussell said:
I suppose whatever interpretation of the rules was made explicit in the player’s meeting or documents given to them would be the proper interpretation, if it even was made explicit.
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I'm don't know if this was directed at me or not, but it doesn't matter. I'm not say the rules shouldn't be enforced, they should. Im saying if the 10-ball is sitting in the jaws of the pocket and the cue ball is on the spot...it doesn't need to be called. Period. Are there grey areas in the game? Sure, of course, but if you draw a vector from the cue ball to the object ball, the closest pocket is the intended pocket. If it is not then maybe it should be called. Luck happens sure, but why the hell do we have a ref if he or she can't make that judgement? I know I'm asking a lot from people and many are going to beat me up for this, but so be it. Sharking is sharking and not gamesmanship. Additionally, it slows the flow of the game and is not in the general intent of how the game should be played. Gentleman's game right? Apparently not. Where's my lawyer??!!!!
 
Why does it matter what the posters of AZB think of the rule and how it should be enforced, or not. The fact still remains that the Ref made the call, not DeLuna. The fact still remains that DeLuna did nothing but react to the Ref.

The only one who has zero blame in this situation is DeLuna. Blame the Ref for either making a bad call, or the right one and back peddling. Blame Mika for being a douche to DeLuna for merely following the direction of the Ref.

I remember threads on this forum wherein players are given free passes on not calling fouls on themselves during Ref'd matches "because the Ref is responsible for making the calls, not the players". Well why is that ok, but when a player follows the direction of a Ref's decision he's somehow low brow or unsportsmanlike...?.

The prior history of these two players also has zero bearing on this situation.

Incredible
 
The_JV said:
Why does it matter what the posters of AZB think of the rule and how it should be enforced, or not. The fact still remains that the Ref made the call, not DeLuna. The fact still remains that DeLuna did nothing but react to the Ref.

The only one who has zero blame in this situation is DeLuna. Blame the Ref for either making a bad call, or the right one and back peddling. Blame Mika for being a douche to DeLuna for merely following the direction of the Ref.

I remember threads on this forum wherein players are given free passes on not calling fouls on themselves during Ref'd matches "because the Ref is responsible for making the calls, not the players". Well why is that ok, but when a player follows the direction of a Ref's decision he's somehow low brow or unsportsmanlike...?.

The prior history of these two players also has zero bearing on this situation.

Incredible
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Agree for the most part. I feel prior history does have a bearing and play a roll.
Think of it like this. If you play in a monthly tournament and players constantly have problems with a certain individual month after month. Eventually it’s going to boil over and people will get fed up and start speaking out. Very easily the case here. I agree it usually doesn’t take much to get Mika going and prior history was probably more then enough to do just that.
 
Pool players know that 10 ball is 9 ball without the luck factor.

IMO, capitalizing on an obviously intended shot by claiming my opponent didn't "call it" is a bitch move. Ref or not,doesn't matter.

Also imo , attempting to claim your obvious fluke was an intended shot when you didn't call it is worthy of lifetime ridicule and permanent nit status.
 
The_JV said:
Why does it matter what the posters of AZB think of the rule and how it should be enforced, or not. The fact still remains that the Ref made the call, not DeLuna. The fact still remains that DeLuna did nothing but react to the Ref.

The only one who has zero blame in this situation is DeLuna. Blame the Ref for either making a bad call, or the right one and back peddling. Blame Mika for being a douche to DeLuna for merely following the direction of the Ref.

I remember threads on this forum wherein players are given free passes on not calling fouls on themselves during Ref'd matches "because the Ref is responsible for making the calls, not the players". Well why is that ok, but when a player follows the direction of a Ref's decision he's somehow low brow or unsportsmanlike...?.

The prior history of these two players also has zero bearing on this situation.

Incredible
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I’m not sure why Mika was so upset at Deluna and why he got away with what he did yelling at him without being issued an unsportsmanlike foul, which could have cost him the match. If so, he would’ve had no one else to blame other than himself.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m not sure why Mika was so upset at Deluna and why he got away with what he did yelling at him without being issued an unsportsmanlike foul, which could have cost him the match. If so, he would’ve had no one else to blame other than himself.
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If Mika would have done this in many other places he would have had to drink his next meal.
 
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