I am not disagreeing with you.
Mika/Williams SBE
- Thread starter theeviltwin69
- Start date
I am not disagreeing with you.
The premise of the original post is just as valid today as it was when it was made.
Players who chop instead of playing the final of a tournament cheapen our game and are stabbing event producers in the back. If you're the one putting up the added money, how would you feel if the finalists decided to chop instead of playing out the final? You have paid for entertainment that has not been provided. The willingness to chop is, as the original poster has suggested, one of the things that reinforces the negative image of pool players, whose loyalty to event producers and promoters has always come up short in the view of this fan.
This problem has gotten worse, not better. The "pay us enough and we won't chop attitude" exhibited far too often in our sport is so fundamentally wrong that it almost defies explanation, because it ignores a simple truth in both life and sports:
"You owe anyone who has invested in you the very best effort you can give. If you give anything less, their appetite for investing in you will be reduced and your prospects for earning more money darkened over time."
Pool players don't seem to see things this way, and even some of those viewed as having the most integrity often shortchange event producers with their behavior.
In most sports, competitors who refuse to play a final will be disciplined and fined.
Players who chop instead of playing the final of a tournament cheapen our game and are stabbing event producers in the back. If you're the one putting up the added money, how would you feel if the finalists decided to chop instead of playing out the final? You have paid for entertainment that has not been provided. The willingness to chop is, as the original poster has suggested, one of the things that reinforces the negative image of pool players, whose loyalty to event producers and promoters has always come up short in the view of this fan.
This problem has gotten worse, not better. The "pay us enough and we won't chop attitude" exhibited far too often in our sport is so fundamentally wrong that it almost defies explanation, because it ignores a simple truth in both life and sports:
"You owe anyone who has invested in you the very best effort you can give. If you give anything less, their appetite for investing in you will be reduced and your prospects for earning more money darkened over time."
Pool players don't seem to see things this way, and even some of those viewed as having the most integrity often shortchange event producers with their behavior.
In most sports, competitors who refuse to play a final will be disciplined and fined.
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Yes the emphasis on the game is important.
But understand these are international people that log more hours playing pool that truckers on the road.
They travel to some of the greatest cities in the world, let them have time to sight see as a group.
As for the matches, I like seeing the table action. Sometimes the players matter, but if they are playing the same break shot for decades, it can get dry fast.
so whether you believe in the chop or not, the main point is players can choose how they play. as long as no gambling is involved then no one should care.
no one cares who wins league matches or local tourneys. it matters for the losers, but once people leave the room, they dont have to come back because of your carrot.
I dont expect all my crops to grow to maximum size every year. I get weak spots in every generation and some plants need different care.
Then again I am a small city guy. I wouldn't know what those statements mean to large cities with less perfect billiard equipment
But understand these are international people that log more hours playing pool that truckers on the road.
They travel to some of the greatest cities in the world, let them have time to sight see as a group.
As for the matches, I like seeing the table action. Sometimes the players matter, but if they are playing the same break shot for decades, it can get dry fast.
so whether you believe in the chop or not, the main point is players can choose how they play. as long as no gambling is involved then no one should care.
no one cares who wins league matches or local tourneys. it matters for the losers, but once people leave the room, they dont have to come back because of your carrot.
I dont expect all my crops to grow to maximum size every year. I get weak spots in every generation and some plants need different care.
Then again I am a small city guy. I wouldn't know what those statements mean to large cities with less perfect billiard equipment
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SJM is spot on as usual. We want billiards to grow and be a more recognized pro sport, but its things like this that kill it. Pro pool can not get out of its own way.
Yes he is.
...
justnum
To bump an old post like this is bad enough.
To come with zero to back up your position, is even worse.
Homework: READ SJM'S MOST RECENT POST 500 TIMES OR UNTIL YOU GET IT.
Ok yes the industry got them out of it.
But don’t players have connections to their roots.
Its like transplanting them and isolating them from their pool roots.
I don’t know know anyone with pool roots in the competition scene.
For me pool started as a family affair.
SJM has valid employer expectations.
I guess the POV is players are not allowed to negotiate those expectations
I don’t pick fights for fighting just learning the reasoning
very doubtful
Strongly disagree.
While the process is tacit, implicit, and ultimately informal, pro pool players negotiate their own compensation by demonstrating the value they can provide to a would be employer or investor. Pro pool players have, far too often, demonstrated that they are not committed to maximizing the value or quality of the product/service they provide. Consequently, they will always be constrained by the relatively modest level of revenue that the pro pool product offers to an investor.
Yes, there will always be a few, especially here on AZB, that will blame event sponsors for a less than stellar effort in marketing pro pool, but if the players don't work together to maximize the quality of the pro pool product, the marketing prospects for the pro game will always be impaired.
You reap what you sow in pool and in life, and the truth is that, as a group, pro pool players haven't sown much. The day could possibly come where they, collectively, make pro pool a better, more marketable, product and can firmly establish that they can add great value to event producers. Were that day to arrive, a legitimate pro tour would result and a more formal negotiation of compensation levels for pro players would be possible.
All of that said, as the ABP experiment verified, you can't strong arm event producers until you can demonstrate the ability to add measurable value to would-be investors in our sport.
I agree its common for people to confuse what other people do for them.
When you explain it to me, I am understanding of what you say.
However other people can take your clear explanation differently because of personal experiences.
I am just saying whats wrong with explaining what you are doing so it makes sense to the people trying to follow the guidelines. The people making noise usually need explaining.
One explanation or a printed explanation is like giving a class of 10 year olds advanced calculus. It might not work out well for everyone.
I feel it applies to rules and such because, some rules or systems are poorly made. like a flat and a sharp being the same on a piano
Good chat.
When you explain it to me, I am understanding of what you say.
However other people can take your clear explanation differently because of personal experiences.
I am just saying whats wrong with explaining what you are doing so it makes sense to the people trying to follow the guidelines. The people making noise usually need explaining.
One explanation or a printed explanation is like giving a class of 10 year olds advanced calculus. It might not work out well for everyone.
I feel it applies to rules and such because, some rules or systems are poorly made. like a flat and a sharp being the same on a piano
Good chat.
It's hard to see how anyone can argue with this. The money does not belong to the players until they play the match.
I suppose that rule should appear in the tournament flyer and be discussed at the players' meeting.
Not for the first time, we are on the same page.
I had an unreasonably successful six-red handicap snooker tournament for about 8 years in the 80s. First time they didn’t want to play the finals, I told them “You’ll make a lot of players happy...because they’ll be getting first and second money added to next week’s tournament.?
I feel calcuttas haven’t got enough respect either...I know of some where I would’ve barred
some players from entering the second year.