Mike Sigel's Group
- Thread starter recoveryjones
- Start date
Mike helped him!
I find it sad and very disrespectful on how many of you speak about Mike. Mike Sigel is one of the greatest players of all time, he has been good for the game. I remember the first time I met Mike and asked him a question about a shot and he spent about 20 minutes showing me how to make the shot. He has always been a gentleman and whenever I see him I ask about shots and position play and he has never objected. Mike and KT are friends and I would have to guess that if it weren't for Mike there probably wouldn't be an IPT.
The IPT is the greatest thing that has happened to pool and gives the players an opportunity to make a living at what they love to do. The money .. the venues... class!
I think Mike is a great guy and I wish him all the best in Vegas ( I will be there) next week.
Mike Sigel should be applauded for all he has done.
The IPT is the greatest thing that has happened to pool and gives the players an opportunity to make a living at what they love to do. The money .. the venues... class!
I think Mike is a great guy and I wish him all the best in Vegas ( I will be there) next week.
Mike Sigel should be applauded for all he has done.
Phil Harrison will definitely be a difficult opponent for Mike Sigel. Phil is a very experienced competitor and is very good under pressure. I don't think I can base my opinion of Sigel on the couple of times I watched his King of the Hill games with Reyes and Jones - he should surely be in better form this time around.
However most of Phil's experience is at the UK version of 8-ball which is a very different game and I'll be fascinated to see how he adjusts. It'd be a surprise to me if they both didn't make it through Round 1.
However most of Phil's experience is at the UK version of 8-ball which is a very different game and I'll be fascinated to see how he adjusts. It'd be a surprise to me if they both didn't make it through Round 1.
BigMalUK said:
Can you explain what is different about the UK version of 8 ball? I am not trying to compare the BCA to the IPT but having recently played against the English team in the Masters BCA in Vegas, I can assure you that they fully understand 8 ball just as good, if not better, than any American.
watchez said:
I agree 100%. I would love to stand right in front of KT, look him in the eye and ask him about Mike's 'lucky draw'.
recoveryjones said:
Sigel's group 11 competition:
Philip HARRISON 400-1
James ROBERTS 500-1
David BROXSON 500-1
Linda CARTER 750-1
I think the skeptics will also conclude that Jim Raney (with whom I'm not familiar at all) is not a close friend of Kevin Trudeau.
Raney's Group 20 competition:
Mika Immonen 16-1
Oliver Ortmann 28-1
Gandy Valle 50-1
Charlie Bryant 125-1
Put Sigel (150-1 shot to win) in Raney's place and he'd have the longest odds of anybody in Group 20.
Of course, it's not all bad. Group 20 will provide some great matches for the fans in the first round, and at least one exceptional player will fail to advance from Group 20.
WOW! Nice comparison SJM.
Quite a contrast between groups. I'm sure these groups could be formed randomly even when distributing top pros, hof, qualifiers into different groups...but...Sigel's is a bit suspicious. Since Sigel got a relatively easy group, some other group has to bite the bullet - looks like the one you listed.
I'll tell you what guys. Let's hold off on the whole "easy group" thing for a while. Just give him the benefit of the doubt (lol) and assume it was truly luck. We'll confirm whether it is luck or not in a little over a month when the World Open in Reno is played. If he gets another easy group - then it is pretty much confirmed. If he gets put into a tough group - then we'll never really know if the Venetian was hand-picked.
It will be interesting to see the groups for the World Open - being that the North American Open will give everyone insight as to who's hot and who's not. This is the first real IPT tournament - with a complete field, and with tough qualified players. Also, since the KOTH, I believe that the level of play has increased dramatically. Players have been focusing on 8-ball, any deficiencies some guys might have had are probably corrected. Also, a lot of players duplicated the conditions (table) to adjust. So, the game we'll see at the Venetian should be 2x more evolved than what was seen in the KOTH. At least...because I thought the level of play at the one qualifer in Spring Hill I saw was better than 1/2 of the KOTH.
Quite a contrast between groups. I'm sure these groups could be formed randomly even when distributing top pros, hof, qualifiers into different groups...but...Sigel's is a bit suspicious. Since Sigel got a relatively easy group, some other group has to bite the bullet - looks like the one you listed.
I'll tell you what guys. Let's hold off on the whole "easy group" thing for a while. Just give him the benefit of the doubt (lol) and assume it was truly luck. We'll confirm whether it is luck or not in a little over a month when the World Open in Reno is played. If he gets another easy group - then it is pretty much confirmed. If he gets put into a tough group - then we'll never really know if the Venetian was hand-picked.
It will be interesting to see the groups for the World Open - being that the North American Open will give everyone insight as to who's hot and who's not. This is the first real IPT tournament - with a complete field, and with tough qualified players. Also, since the KOTH, I believe that the level of play has increased dramatically. Players have been focusing on 8-ball, any deficiencies some guys might have had are probably corrected. Also, a lot of players duplicated the conditions (table) to adjust. So, the game we'll see at the Venetian should be 2x more evolved than what was seen in the KOTH. At least...because I thought the level of play at the one qualifer in Spring Hill I saw was better than 1/2 of the KOTH.
No matter how you look at it it is nowhere as easy as the group of 8 that Allison Fisher finds herself in at every tournament.
The promoters really do want the best and the most popular players to get to the later rounds.
Right now Mike Sigel is drawing more ink than any other player in the IPT. Did you notice how little has been said about Earl lately?
That is just the facts of life.
The promoters really do want the best and the most popular players to get to the later rounds.
Right now Mike Sigel is drawing more ink than any other player in the IPT. Did you notice how little has been said about Earl lately?
That is just the facts of life.
watchez said:
I've never played English 8 ball but I believe that they play on a small table (7 or 8 feet) with pockets cut like a snooker table and I think they use smaller balls. You can't knock any of your opponents balls in and if there is a foul I believe that the incoming player gets two turns at the table before the person who committed the foul gets to return to the table. I think it is usually played with seven red balls, seven yellow balls and a black ball instead of the numbered balls.
I only played in Virtual Pool Hall two or three times so hopefully someone who has actually played will clear up any mistakes I made.
Ok, I and many others were wrong. Mike Sigel got no special treatment from the IPT on his grouping. It was just blind luck & he in fact wasn't the luckiest of players. I just received the following PM from Deno Andrews of the IPT:
Hi,
If you want to know the method of the draw, read the release that went along with the groups. Was his group hand chosen? No. If you think his is the easiest, you must not really know who the players are and how they play because there are several other groups that are far easier than his.
Deno
__________________
Deno J. Andrews
Hi,
If you want to know the method of the draw, read the release that went along with the groups. Was his group hand chosen? No. If you think his is the easiest, you must not really know who the players are and how they play because there are several other groups that are far easier than his.
Deno
__________________
Deno J. Andrews
Keith Buck said:I've never played English 8 ball but I believe that they play on a small table (7 or 8 feet) with pockets cut like a snooker table and I think they use smaller balls. You can't knock any of your opponents balls in and if there is a foul I believe that the incoming player gets two turns at the table before the person who committed the foul gets to return to the table. I think it is usually played with seven red balls, seven yellow balls and a black ball instead of the numbered balls.
I only played in Virtual Pool Hall two or three times so hopefully someone who has actually played will clear up any mistakes I made.
That's a pretty good summary.
Most UK tables are 7 x 4 feet and the pockets are pretty tight and the cut is based on snooker pockets. The balls are way smaller and the cue ball is smaller than the object balls.
Mostly now it is played with reds and yellow balls, but many places still have solids (spots in the UK) and stripes though. Sadly there are way too many different governing bodies and rule variations.
The average UK pool player will have rarely played on the kind of tables used in the US (there are none within 10 miles of where I live, but a UK style one every few hundred yards). The top players have now been beginning to take the US version more seriously, but the first time I played on an American style table was early to mid 1990s and I rarely get a chance to play the American game.
The high run I know of in straight pool on these tables is around 250 - it is harder to make balls because of the pocket cut and many racks end up in tedious and long safety battles (though recent rule changes have improved this). Jump shots are never allowed.
Darren Appleton, Karl Boyes, Phil Harrison, Brian Saleh, Pat Holtz, Neil Raybone and Rob McKenna all grew up playing the UK game, whereas Daryl Peach, Raj Hundal and Imran Majid did not have a 'UK style pool' background at all to the best of my knowledge.
BigMalUK said:
Keith Buck said:
English eight ball is played generally in the pubs. The tables are coin operated tables, average cost was about sixty pence when I was last over there years ago, although I'm sure it has since gone up. Balls are colored yellow & red, with the exception being the black eight ball, numbered eight. The pockets were cut like you would see on the bigger snooker tables in the private clubs & the balls were smaller too.
When I played there, a foul meant the incoming player had cue ball in hand, & the table was open. So if you had run off your color group & scratched, all your opponent had to do was make the black eight & you lost. It was all slop, no call shot.
vader93490 said:
Sorry vader but that makes no sense.You've misdescribed it or your memory is playing tricks with you or those nasty Brits were cheating the Yank tourist
A previous poster has explained there are several different rule sets but you can rest assured that there is no such thing as a UK rule set that allows your opponent to "just make the black eight" in circumstances where you have ran all your group and then scratched,unless he has already potted all the balls of his own group in a previous turn in which case the black eight would be the only ball left on the table anyway.
He must pot all the balls of his group before he can shoot at the eight. Whether you've scratched or not is irrelevant to that requirement of all Uk rules
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memikey said:Sorry vader but that makes no sense.You've misdescribed it or your memory is playing tricks with you or those nasty Brits were cheating the Yank tourist
A previous poster has explained there are several different rule sets but you can rest assured that there is no such thing as a UK rule set that allows your opponent to "just make the black eight" in circumstances where you have ran all your group and then scratched,unless he has already potted all the balls of his own group in a previous turn.
He must pot all the balls of his group before he can shoot at the eight. Whether you've scratched or not is irrelevant to that requirement of all Uk rules
Absolutely right Mikey, you always have to make all your own set before you can win unless your opponent pockets the black and fouls (usually a scratch) in which case the rack goes to the other guy without any further shots being played.
memikey said:Sorry vader but that makes no sense.You've misdescribed it or your memory is playing tricks with you or those nasty Brits were cheating the Yank tourist
A previous poster has explained there are several different rule sets but you can rest assured that there is no such thing as a UK rule set that allows your opponent to "just make the black eight" in circumstances where you have ran all your group and then scratched,unless he has already potted all the balls of his own group in a previous turn in which case the black eight would be the only ball left on the table anyway.
He must pot all the balls of his group before he can shoot at the eight. Whether you've scratched or not is irrelevant to that requirement of all Uk rules
I just remember one of the locals explaining English eight ball rules & how the local pub players played the game. Perhaps it was one of those cases of local "house rules" for the eight ball game, perhaps not. As the saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
The last night I was there though, I did get an earful of how you "bloody Yanks" play on equipment with "over-sized" pockets. They also weren't what I would call gracious losers either when the "damned Yankee" took their quids.
vader93490 said:
Can certainly believe the last paragraph
As regards the "perhaps,perhaps not" bit can certainly guarantee you there is and never has been any Uk "rule code" containing such a rule. Re it perhaps having been a "house rule" in 35 years of extensive travelling in pool circles I've seen a helluva lot of localised ones,some more wierd than others, but the very notion of anywhere in Uk having a "house rule" which allows your opponent to pot the eight half way through a game before potting all of his own colour group,simply because you have scratched in the previous shot is totally absurd and beggars belief.Not only have I never seen that but I've never heard any of the tens of thosands of Uk pool players that I've met ever mention having seen anything even remotely resembling such a house rule.
Are you sure that you are not confusing the situation you described with something similar? You mention "cue ball in hand" and "open table" and "two visits penalty" after scratching.In some very popular Uk rule codes you are given cue ball in hand after your opponent scratches and the table is indeed open for the first of your alloted "two successive visits".In those circumstances, for the first shot of the first of your two alloted visits every ball on the table becomes your ball,including all your opponents group balls and the black ball.You may hit and pot any of your opponents group.You may also contact the black ball first and play it in combination on to any other ball to pot any other ball........but you may not under any circumstances whatsoever pot the black ball until all of your own group balls are potted.
Frankly any game of eight ball in Uk,or in fact anywhere at all in the world,would obviously be completely farcical if it was played the way you described
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