Mike the Mouth v/s Women
- Thread starter 9BallBust-O
- Start date
I dont think thats true.9BallBust-O said:
For one main reason. At the end you keep hearing Mike saying "I cant believe it" well after he says it the last time you can here her respond under her breath "Well you know what? I can" sarcastically. Also look how concerned Sammy (her husband) looks all the time. He was constantly on his feet watching her. If it was known she was gonna tank it he wouldnt be worried about what she was gonna do.
She was upset, its obvious. Sure she got paid, she got paid for second place. I think if she was going to throw the match it would have been a little closer then that. I dont think she had any plans of throwing it at all.
She did shoot like shit though... I would have beat her that day.
Anyway, this is another debate.
Well i was actually just talkin shiet. gromulan...realx - dont take it so serious.
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Yeah I think Sigel will beat Corr, but I didnt go that far LOL.uwate said:
I've seen Allison play quite a few times, and I've seen her when she has an 'off' day. She plays absoloutely horrible. The last time I saw her play bad was in Vegas recently. She couldn't run out a wide open rack to save her life the entire match. Keep in mind, this was Allison on an 'off' day.
Now you compare that to players like Efren, who even on his worst day, can run racks of 15-ball rotation with ease.
There is a big difference there.
I'll say it again. Allison and Karen play around 130-140 speed USPPA rating. Efren and a few other top pros are right around 190-200.
A 130 speed is capable of beating any top player every once in a while in a short race. Heck they might even catch dead punch and win a regional tournament with two or three top players in attendance if they get a good draw. That doesn't mean that they play even in the same ballpark as a top player.
Now you compare that to players like Efren, who even on his worst day, can run racks of 15-ball rotation with ease.
There is a big difference there.
I'll say it again. Allison and Karen play around 130-140 speed USPPA rating. Efren and a few other top pros are right around 190-200.
A 130 speed is capable of beating any top player every once in a while in a short race. Heck they might even catch dead punch and win a regional tournament with two or three top players in attendance if they get a good draw. That doesn't mean that they play even in the same ballpark as a top player.
Let's open with the obvious. Allison and Karen do not play as well as the most elite men.
Still, the single greatest hint at how they'll compete against the men is Karen's wonderful track record on the Joss tourr, where she always finshes hight, and where she has beaten almost every big name.
And, or course, Karen was a factor at the IPT King of the Hill event: Here's how it went:
Round 1:
beat Archer 8-4
beat Parica 8-4
beat VanDenBerg 8-7
Lost to Davenport 8-4
baet Mathews 8-1
Round 2:
lost to Bustmanate 8-4
beat Robles 8-4
beat VanDenberg 8-4
lost to Feijen 8-0
The evidence speaks for itself. Karen has been able to hold her own against the elite men on the Joss tour and showed she can mix it up with the best of the best at the IPT King of the Hill. It is hard to fathom why there are so many doubters when it comes to Karen's pedigree.
Allison gets a grade of incomplete. She is only just begining to compete against men in tournaments. Still, her 3-2 record at the IPT King of the Hill event bodes well.
Mike the Mouth knows what he saw, and knows that Fisher and Corr are very dangerous. He is only playing up the gender thing because he thinks it will give the IPT some good headlines, and he may well be right.
Still, the single greatest hint at how they'll compete against the men is Karen's wonderful track record on the Joss tourr, where she always finshes hight, and where she has beaten almost every big name.
And, or course, Karen was a factor at the IPT King of the Hill event: Here's how it went:
Round 1:
beat Archer 8-4
beat Parica 8-4
beat VanDenBerg 8-7
Lost to Davenport 8-4
baet Mathews 8-1
Round 2:
lost to Bustmanate 8-4
beat Robles 8-4
beat VanDenberg 8-4
lost to Feijen 8-0
The evidence speaks for itself. Karen has been able to hold her own against the elite men on the Joss tour and showed she can mix it up with the best of the best at the IPT King of the Hill. It is hard to fathom why there are so many doubters when it comes to Karen's pedigree.
Allison gets a grade of incomplete. She is only just begining to compete against men in tournaments. Still, her 3-2 record at the IPT King of the Hill event bodes well.
Mike the Mouth knows what he saw, and knows that Fisher and Corr are very dangerous. He is only playing up the gender thing because he thinks it will give the IPT some good headlines, and he may well be right.
Didn't Allison enter and win a mens event in Florida? I think she beat Tommy Kennedy in the finals. I think she might have won 2 such events if i'm not mistaken.
As for competing against men, i think Allisons track record against then is only incomplete here in the states.
From what i remember, i was talking with some guys from England, who said (when comparing Allison to Karen in SNOOKER) that Allison entered open events and womens events, where Karen just played in womens events or not as many open events or something like that.
Now that's not the same game as pocket billiards, but it might give a clue how seasoned she is against men, if someone could find any info about those tournaments.
As for competing against men, i think Allisons track record against then is only incomplete here in the states.
From what i remember, i was talking with some guys from England, who said (when comparing Allison to Karen in SNOOKER) that Allison entered open events and womens events, where Karen just played in womens events or not as many open events or something like that.
Now that's not the same game as pocket billiards, but it might give a clue how seasoned she is against men, if someone could find any info about those tournaments.
Nostroke said:
First let me say that if playing in one tournament and winning a few matches qualifies one to be ranked 309th in the world, there might be a problem with the ranking system
.Personally, I believe that both Allison and Karen play better than I do. I also believe that most men who play about my speed think they are better than A&K, and they're not.
That said, I don't know how much better they play than I, but probably not much.
We should also keep in mind that with the present format of women's tournaments, the better player doesn't have to win. Some of their tournaments go to single-elimination, alternating break, races to 7 on loose tables with new cloth once they hit the final sixteen or something. Any guy outside of maybe the top 10 (intimidation factor alone) who thinks he's a guarantee to win from that point is deluding himself.
Just my opinion...
- Steve
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I totally know what you mean. I remember one of the first local weekly tournaments that Karen attended, and initially, EVERYONE was cracking jokes about who was this woman to even think she could play with the guys in that room. AND as fate would have it, she ended up with a super tough draw, and i remember like it was yesterday, how one by one, she just kept on winning. And it WASN'T because she had such great 9 ball skills cause she was still learning the game, but it was just some of the purest shotmaking i have ever seen. By anyone! She would get out of line constantly, and the people she was playing would always turn around kind of indicating that NOW, they were gonna get a shot, and they would be talking to themselves as she consistently came with a ridiculous shot. It was totally amazing.Steve Lipsky said:
Personally, i think she shot WAY STRAIGHTER then, then she ever does now.
The funniest was when someone who had to play her came up and asked me what i thought, and i told him flat out, "She doesn't miss" So he smiled, turned to me, and said (while nodding his head up and down with a smirk like he is DA MAN) "Let me go show this chick how to play this game"
His match was done in 15 minutes. He got crushed.
She eventually lost to MAIDHOF, who at the time, was playing probably his BEST pool. He put a couple of moves on her, that she just never experienced before and had no clue what to do in those particular situations, but other than that and a more experienced break determining who won, she had just as much firepower as anyone else.
To cap my opinion of her, i have seen her play numerous times on the JOSS tour. It was always nice to watch her game ELEVATE, when she had to play some SUPERSTAR (i know i know)
ESPECIALLY MIKA! I have watched Karen butcher Mika from Salisbury MD. to Providence RI. You want to talk about good matches. Based on what i witnessed, i will say that both her AND Allison can play with anyone. They might not win all the time (not like anyone does anyway besides EFREN) but they are definitely forces to be dealt with. Who can at any time, put a hurting on anyone.
NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!
I think one of the reasons you don't see Allison playing in a lot of open events, is cause she makes more money. So she doesn't feel the need to go out of the way and play. But if her finances started to dwindle, i'd bet you'd start to see her a lot more on the regional scene, sparking everyone up!
Steve Lipsky said:
SteveL,
Thanks for the input. Another factor that confuses the issue is that we see the majority of these players (men and women) playing only 9-ball. The game itself has a HUGE randomizing factor, which is the opening power break.
The fact that the women can compete successfully with the men, despite their obvious break handicap speaks very well for their overall shotmaking and strategic abilities.
P.S. - I hope we will see your wife soon in the winner's circle.
Nostroke said:
I'm afraid I don't know enough about the womens tour to make an informed judgement. I will say that I was VERY impressed with Karen's results in the IPT KOTH, AND the two ladies performance in the 14.1 tourny last week.
PS
IMO Any ranking system that incudes tournaments that are invite only or not truly open events is fundamentaly flawed.
StraightPoolIU said:
My thoughts exactly! In this regard, then the choice of MS as mascot for the IPT was an inspired one. KT gets a lot of interest in the IPT and MS has never been more talked about in a decade. So they both win big time. Nice strategy, Mike and Kevin!
And I think MS is dissing the women just for this one purpose. I think he knows that the level of play among the women nowadays is a far cry from when he was at his best, and i think he knows also that he's far from playing his best lately. I think he knows it in his heart that Allison or Karen can beat him, or any other male player, any time!
Steve Lipsky said:First let me say that if playing in one tournament and winning a few matches qualifies one to be ranked 309th in the world, there might be a problem with the ranking system
Personally, I believe that both Allison and Karen play better than I do. I also believe that most men who play about my speed think they are better than A&K, and they're not.
That said, I don't know how much better they play than I, but probably not much.
We should also keep in mind that with the present format of women's tournaments, the better player doesn't have to win. Some of their tournaments go to single-elimination, alternating break, races to 7 on loose tables with new cloth once they hit the final sixteen or something. Any guy outside of maybe the top 10 (intimidation factor alone) who thinks he's a guarantee to win from that point is deluding himself.
Just my opinion...
- Steve
My post was half tongue in cheek Steve- I definitely know that the WPA rankings are bogus. To even think for a minute that you could undertake such a task or publish them with a straight face is pretty absurd. Im almost sure you get ranked if you ENTER any UPA tournament. One of NY's own was ranked 611 a couple years back and i dont think he ever won a match. I use to tease him and he threatened to enter me in an event just to get me a world ranking.
Anyway thanks for the input on Karen and Allison's game.
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