"Mint" or "Like New" Condition. What does it mean?

neilhin

neilhin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People who don't understand what "mint condition" means ought not to use the term. By any definition, "mint condition" implies that the item being described is in absolutely perfect condition. When applied to a cue, it should mean that the cue shows no signs of being used AND is in perfect condition overall. I believe the standard is even higher than "like new" because a "new" cue may have some minor flaws in workmanship but still be "new" per se.

Recently, I had a transaction with a fellow AZer who made the following comment in one of his original PMs ....
"......... I was wondering if you'd take a trade plus cash. I have a mint condition [MAKE] fancy sneaky with 1 shaft with a brand new tip."

We did the deal here is the result. The butt itself is indeed pretty close to mint condition, but the shaft has a fair amount of blueing.
If you read the statement again, you find that it appears to be constructed deliberately, maybe implying that the word "mint" applies to the butt only, so I suppose one could argue that point, but that would be a stretch at the very least. :rolleyes:

I'm ultimately ok with the deal and not here to litigate in front of the "AZ Court". As it turns out, there appears to be a small manufacturer defect in the new cue as well that I sent him so that is being resolved as well. That is not the point of this post.

I feel that terms like "mint" and "like new" should imply exactly what they are supposed to and inspire a level of confidence that other terms do not. Ultimately, using percentages (95% condition, 90% condition, 85% condition, etc), along with a description, offers a much better feel for the actual condition of a cue.
 
neilhin said:
People who don't understand what "mint condition" means ought not to use the term. By any definition, "mint condition" implies that the item being described is in absolutely perfect condition. When applied to a cue, it should mean that the cue shows no signs of being used AND is in perfect condition overall. I believe the standard is even higher than "like new" because a "new" cue may have some minor flaws in workmanship but still be "new" per se.

Recently, I had a transaction with a fellow AZer who made the following comment in one of his original PMs ....
"......... I was wondering if you'd take a trade plus cash. I have a mint condition [MAKE] fancy sneaky with 1 shaft with a brand new tip."

We did the deal here is the result. The butt itself is indeed pretty close to mint condition, but the shaft has a fair amount of blueing.
If you read the statement again, you find that it appears to be constructed deliberately, maybe implying that the word "mint" applies to the butt only, so I suppose one could argue that point, but that would be a stretch at the very least. :rolleyes:

I'm ultimately ok with the deal and not here to litigate in front of the "AZ Court". As it turns out, there appears to be a small manufacturer defect in the new cue as well that I sent him so that is being resolved as well. That is not the point of this post.

I feel that terms like "mint" and "like new" should imply exactly what they are supposed to and inspire a level of confidence that other terms do not. Ultimately, using percentages (95% condition, 90% condition, 85% condition, etc), along with a description, offers a much better feel for the actual condition of a cue.
Click to expand...

shafts get bluing, its inevitable. If its not a collector cue, in the few thousand range that will never be used, than bluing is going to occur. its retarded and petty when people ***** about bluing on shafts, chalk is abrasive and will get in the grains of the wood, its inevitable. sry, don't mean to be a dick about it, but its just common sense that it will happen. I truly don't get it. ernie gutierrez from ginacue, the premier builder in the country says the same thing, and he also thinks that shafts with some brown marks makes zero difference in the shafts playability, so I tend to agree with arguably the best cuemaker ever.



and you have nothing for sale, so why is this here?//////////????????????????????????
 
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Have a mint

I think it goes without saying that most cues re-sold
are "not new". So if you truly want a MINT cue then
buy a NEW cue.
 
neilhin said:
People who don't understand what "mint condition" means ought not to use the term. By any definition, "mint condition" implies that the item being described is in absolutely perfect condition. When applied to a cue, it should mean that the cue shows no signs of being used AND is in perfect condition overall. I believe the standard is even higher than "like new" because a "new" cue may have some minor flaws in workmanship but still be "new" per se.

Recently, I had a transaction with a fellow AZer who made the following comment in one of his original PMs ....
"......... I was wondering if you'd take a trade plus cash. I have a mint condition [MAKE] fancy sneaky with 1 shaft with a brand new tip."

We did the deal here is the result. The butt itself is indeed pretty close to mint condition, but the shaft has a fair amount of blueing.
If you read the statement again, you find that it appears to be constructed deliberately, maybe implying that the word "mint" applies to the butt only, so I suppose one could argue that point, but that would be a stretch at the very least. :rolleyes:

I'm ultimately ok with the deal and not here to litigate in front of the "AZ Court". As it turns out, there appears to be a small manufacturer defect in the new cue as well that I sent him so that is being resolved as well. That is not the point of this post.

I feel that terms like "mint" and "like new" should imply exactly what they are supposed to and inspire a level of confidence that other terms do not. Ultimately, using percentages (95% condition, 90% condition, 85% condition, etc), along with a description, offers a much better feel for the actual condition of a cue.
Click to expand...


I hear what your saying, I've used the term Mint condition quite a bit, and I've never had a complaint.. I guess that's because my cues are Minty fresh..

I use percentages sometimes, but not all the time..
Percentages are definitely an opinion kind of like your Signature quoted below..

neilhin said:
Top Dollar paid for Trades.
Click to expand...
 
neilhin said:
People who don't understand what "mint condition" means ought not to use the term. By any definition, "mint condition" implies that the item being described is in absolutely perfect condition. When applied to a cue, it should mean that the cue shows no signs of being used AND is in perfect condition overall. I believe the standard is even higher than "like new" because a "new" cue may have some minor flaws in workmanship but still be "new" per se.

Recently, I had a transaction with a fellow AZer who made the following comment in one of his original PMs ....
"......... I was wondering if you'd take a trade plus cash. I have a mint condition [MAKE] fancy sneaky with 1 shaft with a brand new tip."

We did the deal here is the result. The butt itself is indeed pretty close to mint condition, but the shaft has a fair amount of blueing.
If you read the statement again, you find that it appears to be constructed deliberately, maybe implying that the word "mint" applies to the butt only, so I suppose one could argue that point, but that would be a stretch at the very least. :rolleyes:

I'm ultimately ok with the deal and not here to litigate in front of the "AZ Court". As it turns out, there appears to be a small manufacturer defect in the new cue as well that I sent him so that is being resolved as well. That is not the point of this post.

I feel that terms like "mint" and "like new" should imply exactly what they are supposed to and inspire a level of confidence that other terms do not. Ultimately, using percentages (95% condition, 90% condition, 85% condition, etc), along with a description, offers a much better feel for the actual condition of a cue.
Click to expand...

1 shaft with brand new tip is red light by itself:D
 
poQet trainer said:
shafts get bluing, its inevitable. If its not a collector cue, in the few thousand range that will never be used, than bluing is going to occur. its retarded and petty when people ***** about bluing on shafts, chalk is abrasive and will get in the grains of the wood, its inevitable. sry, don't mean to be a dick about it, but its just common sense that it will happen. I truly don't get it. ernie gutierrez from ginacue, the premier builder in the country says the same thing, and he also thinks that shafts with some brown marks makes zero difference in the shafts playability, so I tend to agree with arguably the best cuemaker ever.



and you have nothing for sale, so why is this here?//////////????????????????????????
Click to expand...

Huh? :confused: Folks, This post is not about shafts, specifically!
It's about using the terms "mint condition" or "like new". I used the blue shaft just as an example. Its primarily intended for people who use the terms freely and loosely. I have had other experiences that have nothing to do with shafts.
 
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A cue with obvious chalk residue stains in the shaft cannot be "Mint" or even "Like new" by definition, imo.

I see this more and more these days. Somebody tells me they have a ***mint*** such-and-such that they want to trade in. I say ok, send me some pics....only to see the cue has a dirty as hell shaft, a "rookie ring" on the ferrule and needs a new tip. Not to mention possible finish blems. Geez....come on.

This is not rocket science guys. Be honest about your cues' conditions and supply decently good pics.
 
The bottom-line is when someone sells you a cue described as "Mint - Like New"......you had better have to search hard and inspect really close to find the flaws but there will be flaws.
Otherwise, there could be a more noticeable slight, ding, chip in the finish that's relatively minor and that qualifies......but if that flaw is conspicuous or there's several minor flaws, then the cue can't be described as "Mint - Like New"......the seller had better describe the cue as very good or maybe even excellent or something else but "Mint - Like New" would be misleading and the seller had better be ready to offer a full refund under those circumstances.

Sean got it right....everyone knows what shape their cue is in and what a new cue looks like. Don't exaggerate because you'll only wind up backtracking and defending your description to the buyer....it will lead to quarrels and mistrust in everything you tell them about the cue....be honest because then you'll never have any difficulty later on remembering what you said about your cue.

Matt B.
 
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Sellers should point out every flaw when they sell something. From a blued shaft to very minor surface scratches in a butt that you can only see in the right lighting, just to cover their bases. I just sold a predator that was in great playing condition (other than a chip out of the lacquer in the handle) on eBay. I listed every possible thing wrong with it that someone could possibly complain about.

http://bit.ly/1e3oulW

Probably could've gotten more if I didn't mention the typical predator finish issue on the shaft and bluing but I didn't want any returns and end up losing a bunch of money on shipping!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I see the same seller using this alot " some signs of wear but in mint condition". I smirk a little each time I see this. He also says he sales all cues with a slight taper roll. Mint means just that Mint.
 
I also use the term mint or just like new a lot . If a shaft has Bluing and weak tips just say so . It's a lot easier to be honest upfront about all of a cues issues than to try and unwind a deal . It's better to underpromise and over deliver.
 
Pretty surprised over the first few responses in this thread.

like new should be just that, nothing that could distinguish it from being new.

mint, that comes from freshly struck coins, you know, new.

I use tan chalk because I don't like my shafts getting blue. If someone sells me a shaft and says it's like new or mint, I'm expecting there to be no blue.

and to new member poQet trainer who came across as a little unfriendly in his response, maybe lighten up a little. The man asked a fair question. And while I agree it may have been posted in the wrong section, there is information contained within that can be directly helpful to us here in wanted/for sale.

thanks.

best,
brian kc
 
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MINT and Never hit a ball, or unchalked, to certain people should be stated as "After restoration". You can have both those things but be honest that your local cuesmith hit it with a cleaning and a refinish.

MINT and Unchalked should maybe be reserved for brand new cues.

As in anything else.. proceed with caution. :wink:

JV
 
Very possibly this post is in the wrong section but its really at the heart of what this section is all about. If it plants a seed in peoples heads about how they describe their products, it should ultimately have a multiplier effect ... i.e. fewer posts about 'how I got screwed by ...' etc, etc. Right? The topic seems basic but the I feel subject is quite important.

Another scenario .. I recently ordered a used custom cue online (not on AZ) described in "mint condition". As it turns out, it actually had a couple of dings and scuff marks. This was a dealer many AZers will know.

Let's face it .. "mint" and "like new" aren't really descriptions anyway. They're labels. So, if we're going to use labels to describe something, they ought to have a reliable meaning or just avoid the labels and simply offer an accurate description instead.

Mods, my apologies if this is becoming winded ... just needed to get this off my chest. Please move if you deem appropriate to do so. ;)
 
Mint means pristine, untouched and absolutely perfect.

Like new most likely means almost perfect, used but you couldn't tell it was if it was put on a shelf.
 
New

Unchalked test hit is mint.
Chalked test hit is not mint and cleaned up with new tips is not mint.
Like new would be refinished to like new unchalked with new tips no sign of wear.
Like new.
Played is played. Can a Cue be 98% and used. I really do not think so.
Cues are New or Used.
Nick :)
 
A "mint" or "like new" cue should be just that and have no shaft bluing. People rightfully ***** because they're being mislead when someone says a cue with shaft bluing is "like new". Like new means it is equivalent to a new cue. If it's not, the best it can be is excellent.

Ernie is a great cuemaker, but I really don't care what he has to say about shaft grading. He gets to make more money by selling dopes AA shafts at a AAAA price. He's really glad that people like you don't care, because you put more money in his pocket. Tony Scianella has different thoughts on shafts, and there are a few people who think he's a pretty decent cuemaker.

In any case, a mint or like new cue should look like a new cue. Everything else is excellent, very good, or whatever.


poQet trainer said:
shafts get bluing, its inevitable. If its not a collector cue, in the few thousand range that will never be used, than bluing is going to occur. its retarded and petty when people ***** about bluing on shafts, chalk is abrasive and will get in the grains of the wood, its inevitable. sry, don't mean to be a dick about it, but its just common sense that it will happen. I truly don't get it. ernie gutierrez from ginacue, the premier builder in the country says the same thing, and he also thinks that shafts with some brown marks makes zero difference in the shafts playability, so I tend to agree with arguably the best cuemaker ever.



and you have nothing for sale, so why is this here?//////////????????????????????????
Click to expand...
 
The Clever Set said:
A "mint" or "like new" cue should be just that and have no shaft bluing. People rightfully ***** because they're being mislead when someone says a cue with shaft bluing is "like new". Like new means it is equivalent to a new cue. If it's not, the best it can be is excellent.

Ernie is a great cuemaker, but I really don't care what he has to say about shaft grading. He gets to make more money by selling dopes AA shafts at a AAAA price. He's really glad that people like you don't care, because you put more money in his pocket. Tony Scianella has different thoughts on shafts, and there are a few people who think he's a pretty decent cuemaker.

In any case, a mint or like new cue should look like a new cue. Everything else is excellent, very good, or whatever.
Click to expand...

sry, but if you buy a used cue, don't expect brand new. people buy cues to play with them, you want a brand new cue, buy a brand new cue.
 
nick serdula said:
Unchalked test hit is mint.
Chalked test hit is not mint and cleaned up with new tips is not mint.
Like new would be refinished to like new unchalked with new tips no sign of wear.
Like new.
Played is played. Can a Cue be 98% and used. I really do not think so.
Cues are New or Used.
Nick :)
Click to expand...

So how would one tell if a new cue had been chalked played a rack or two and then the owner had the tips replaced. What wouldn't be mint about it? How could anyone tell the difference?
 
Mint and new are not interchangeable terms.
Mint condition does not mean brand new or unplayed. Mint means free from any defect or damage. To me, brand new means unplayed and unchalked. Mint, to me can mean handled and played but with no dings, chips or noticeable damage and certainly straight.

I take the term mint from the collectibles world such as coins or baseball cards. Clearly cards could have been handled and in a collection for years and still qualify for mint, where as coins have an "uncirculated" classification.

In baseball cards a card could be "pack fresh" and never touched by human hands and still not be mint (centering issues, print lines etc) where as a card could be 30 years old and receive a professional grade of mint.
If someone played with a cue for 6 months and listed it for sale as mint, I understand it to be a used cue free of any damage, but it better not have a ding somewhere.
 
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