Yes there is a gulf between the very best and the merely exceptionally good. The guy down your local pool hall who "never misses" would be in bits if he somehow was freerolled into the last 16 of a major professional pool tournament. The clock pressure would get to him even if he is used to playing with a shot clock.
Modern Era Tournament Slow Play - (a rant)
- Thread starter Grilled Cheese
- Start date
An interesting aside here....I was playing 9 ball with a friend once and we had been at it awhile and he was racking and I said, "Speed Pool" and he said, let's do it. We played 26 racks in one hour. No safeties that I remember just going for it. It was a great teaching tool and I highly recommend it. You'll learn a lot about the decisions that matter and if your under-time pressure you'll trust yourself. You just fire them in and roll to the next one.
I do wonder how much it really helps to constantly walk around the table to look at potting and carom angles. I do this myself, but I'm not sure if it's all that helpful really. There's just so many parts of one's PSR that becomes a crutch. I don't recall seeing as much of this in previous eras. Players would just recognize a half ball hit - for example, and they would shoot it. They wouldn’t have to go through the process of staring down the angle. I think we have collectively concluded that gathering more information for each shot is the way to go, so we all just do it. My hunch is there's a lot of fluff we think helps but it really doesn't do nearly as much as we think, but we fear overlooking one bit of info may cause us to miss. So it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy to some degree. Souquet may have been one of the leaders in this department, and it seems many have followed in his path.
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6+game pkg's have always been pretty rare.
I've watched a fair amount of women's matches of women beyond the level of watchability. They play as if they are scared to death instead of trusting what they know and its like you're watching them teach themselves how to play, rather than watching them play. This comes from doubting the aiming convention they use. Those that know their perceptions are on target get down and fire with the idea of what that execution result should be.
There are a few culprits partly responsible and one of them is a contract that I heard of recently that prohibited the women of entering events like the men do. From what I was told if the event didn't have a significant amount of added money the WPBA didn't want their players playing and this includes the Friday night event at the Pool Room. It's the ole "let's not let people use us for our viewership unless they are paying for it", type of thing and in my view, it hurts the women who need to play better in order to be watchable. They can lose their membership in the WPBA if they violate it.
While I don't necessarily add the scoping out the table a part of one's PSR. I know that I have at times not bothered doing that walk around and it's bitten me in the ass....lol.
I do enjoy these threads. Next up we'll double back on touting how difficult pool really is, and the precision/focus it takes to play at an elite level....lol
Not to venture too far from the topic but...oh what do I care
Men and women are different creatures. With significant psychological differences. Of course there's overlap and exceptions and all that, but I think many of the differences are deeply evolutionary. Men having the ability to be completely single minded is one of them. Going off and solely focusing on finding something to eat is the prime example. Woman have historically never had this luxury, as they've always been in a more vulnerable position -- having to consider both their security, especially while pregnant, and the security of their young. So having a methodical approach to the game in order to force the needed single-mindedness makes sense to me, and I believe Allison Fisher has mentioned something about this in the past when asked about the differences between the sexes (the single-mindedness part).
I'm more surprised how methodical so many male players are. Maybe it's a bit of the opposite, where they have to force a more methodical approach in order to fend off the negative affects of being too single-minded.
Or I could just be wrong.
Either way, that's enough armchair psychology for the day for me.
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B.D.
It's why Gorst's Russian mind does so well in pool.
Russians are bourne/groomed to follow directives and listen, as a normal way of life.
IMHO this gives him an advantage in the ''listening'' department.
And in turn, he does what he's told and Will change.
It's why Gorst's Russian mind does so well in pool.
Russians are bourne/groomed to follow directives and listen, as a normal way of life.
IMHO this gives him an advantage in the ''listening'' department.
And in turn, he does what he's told and Will change.
I believe you may be right. Stalev, more recently Chinakhov, and now Gorst all seem to have that stoic, soldier like type of focus that may indeed have cultural origins.
I never said they were frequent, but they happened plenty back then. That era was not void of it because there was a deficiency in skill. Probably more since they played winner breaks more often back then, but I'm not factoring this in. I'm using that as a descriptor of skill level. There were many huge comebacks in the old days by players running multiple racks - thus, they didn't have an issue with shot making or position play. This was to help debunk this claim that slow-play in the modern era is what makes modern era play better.
No, they were rare just like they are now. That "rareness" makes them exciting at the time and memorable in the future.
But isn't this pretty much the definition of women who are successful in a man's world?
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Yes, playing outside your comfort zone does your game no harm. Calling a shot ahead is another good one. But these are good training tools with friends for low or no stakes - they force good play but at the same time take the pressure off. No place for them in competitive matches as they lead to sloppiness.
Hmmm, I think Russians are at least as, maybe more, likely to have their own mind than most of us.
He's a pool player.
it isn't whether it is better to play slow or not. when you stream or tournaments if you want spectators than it has to move along briskly.
if its boring than the spectator money dries up and so does the prize money eventually.
only two ways to speed it up. one is to have the director give a warning then penalize severely those that take too long as for his discretion.
even giving a forfeit. and then no longer invite them back to play. that would change it instantly.
second way is the shot clock. it works but it is still too long for most basic shots. and has its own problems.
take your choice. or suffer the ruination of video pool.
when they said gamblers dont use shot clocks that is true. no need as becuase the slow pokes dont get action.
if its boring than the spectator money dries up and so does the prize money eventually.
only two ways to speed it up. one is to have the director give a warning then penalize severely those that take too long as for his discretion.
even giving a forfeit. and then no longer invite them back to play. that would change it instantly.
second way is the shot clock. it works but it is still too long for most basic shots. and has its own problems.
take your choice. or suffer the ruination of video pool.
when they said gamblers dont use shot clocks that is true. no need as becuase the slow pokes dont get action.
"previous generations played on slop bucket pockets"
Bumping this thread after watching quite a bit of Turning Stone.
Is it the chicken or the egg?
Do many of the top players play great because of their quicker rhythm, or does their great play allow them to play with a much quicker rhythm?
I think it has been assumed by most, myself included, that it's the latter, but I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.
As one example -- does Skylar and Shaw in particular, possess some super human trait, where they DO NOT have to stare down every single potting angle? I was mesmerized by watching them both fire in balls, where they just instinctively knew the thickness of the hit.
Something tells me, most experienced players also have this information already stored in their noggins. So why is all the examining taking place between shots? Why is this a part of almost every player's routine, myself included?
I think this is what we do when we get nervous. We fall back on a very structured approach to playing, but maybe, just maybe this isn't the right approach. When we allow ourselves to become super methodical, we are giving ourselves a way out. Is it possible, we would be better off, long-term, playing faster and in so doing, we train our brains along the way? Eventually, our nervous brain gives up on trying to add more and more structure in order to fight the nerves. If one doesn't push back on this, you end up with players constantly circling the table, measuring every angle, moving the chalk here and there, picking lint off the table, having the cue ball constantly cleaned, and on and on it goes. Then throw in a miss on a big shot, and next time it becomes all those things plus an extra step to ensure you didn't skip any previous steps because surely you missed because you overlooked something.
My theory is this is all the conscious brain fighting for control in a stressful situation. Maybe we just need to fight back.
Pure beautiful pool -- is played largely subconsciously but most of us just don't allow this. I'm at least going to see if I can start moving more in this direction. This doesn't mean I'm going to play recklessly, it just means I'm going to trust myself more.
Is it the chicken or the egg?
Do many of the top players play great because of their quicker rhythm, or does their great play allow them to play with a much quicker rhythm?
I think it has been assumed by most, myself included, that it's the latter, but I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.
As one example -- does Skylar and Shaw in particular, possess some super human trait, where they DO NOT have to stare down every single potting angle? I was mesmerized by watching them both fire in balls, where they just instinctively knew the thickness of the hit.
Something tells me, most experienced players also have this information already stored in their noggins. So why is all the examining taking place between shots? Why is this a part of almost every player's routine, myself included?
I think this is what we do when we get nervous. We fall back on a very structured approach to playing, but maybe, just maybe this isn't the right approach. When we allow ourselves to become super methodical, we are giving ourselves a way out. Is it possible, we would be better off, long-term, playing faster and in so doing, we train our brains along the way? Eventually, our nervous brain gives up on trying to add more and more structure in order to fight the nerves. If one doesn't push back on this, you end up with players constantly circling the table, measuring every angle, moving the chalk here and there, picking lint off the table, having the cue ball constantly cleaned, and on and on it goes. Then throw in a miss on a big shot, and next time it becomes all those things plus an extra step to ensure you didn't skip any previous steps because surely you missed because you overlooked something.
My theory is this is all the conscious brain fighting for control in a stressful situation. Maybe we just need to fight back.
Pure beautiful pool -- is played largely subconsciously but most of us just don't allow this. I'm at least going to see if I can start moving more in this direction. This doesn't mean I'm going to play recklessly, it just means I'm going to trust myself more.
"previous generations played on slop bucket pockets"
This is from Toronto, and those tables look to be setup for snooker like pockets at least from the one I can see closest looking at the side pocket, seems to be a curve on it.