Monday Morning Biatch

Joey, I know what your saying but as I said, no pool player has an obligation to the people betting on the side whether its the rail or a calcutta. Most of those people wont be giving up an jelly anyway and that is a part of what is wrong with pool too. If those players got a 10% jelly on all the side betting they would have a couple extra grand a year but most people are cheapskates and would not buy the guy a beer. How much is bet on the side on Shane when he plays a TAR match?, lets just say $20,000, he does not get any love from those people who bet on him and win some dough.

I respect backers because they are making the action happen in the first place, putting up $10,000 to win $5,000-$6,000 while people on here and elsewhere bet $500 and win $500 usually. I wish The Action Room had a 10% player jelly fund for the TAR matches, would be pretty cool to see $500 get shipped to the player with a thanks and good shooting note from x, y and z on AZ Billiards.

Imagine Oscar or someone like that receiving that money and feeling good that the guys betting on the side appreciate him playing hard and winning, being true fans. So a player wins and gets nothing from the rail but if he loses he gets degraded and called a dog or dump artist, that is just disgusting.

As for what a player should do, be honest and not cheat, dump or con. Not showing up for a match because he stayed out late is not something that I see as wrong regardless if people bet on him in the calcutta, its the players choice but with a pro player I think expectations are higher. I can understand people being upset and especially a room owner or promoter if the players in the final chop it up at a big event without playing a match and putting on a show for the spectators.

Players pay an entry to play in a tournament and try and win it, not to become part of the process of gambling and the calcutta. Calcuttas are illegal in most states so a player supporting that is not helpful for pool at all and when the calcutta is busted and its in the local paper and on the news then it gives pool a black eye and bad image and do not say it has never happened because it has. So what is really wrong with pool Joey, the illegal activity and support of it or the players not taking part of it? Personally I think gambling on pool is fun and calcuttas too but totally understand the guys walking the line and not taking part in it, its THEIR choice.

If pool had real money in it then calcuttas would not be needed, pool is a 2nd class sport because its in the game section at Barnes and Nobles. We have big sports here in the USA and pool is not one of them, its not a spectator sport so not many watch it and therefor sponsor dollars go elsewhere. Its popular in Asia because they do not have the big sports like NFL, NBA, MLB and whatnot like we do along with Nascar and a ton of other things. Pool is what is wrong with pool, its a subculture that us diehards love, it would be cool if it was on ESPN like it should, broadcast live and big sponsors behind it or would it be? Maybe the allure to us in the subculture is the fact that it is an underground game so to speak, small and tight nit community with the players accessible to the fans, we might not like it as much if it blew up and everyone was doing it.

I see many people on here who lose a bet on a guy and whine about how the guy played, like when Earl lost it when he was tied at 65 or something in a race to 75 and just gave up. I bet on Earl and was disappointed but it was his choice, I knew a meltdown was possible and he owes nothing to me or the rest of us who bet on him. I think some people do not look at pool players as human being but more as racehorses, stroke them while they are running good and when they are not so hot then they are dog food. That to me is what is wrong with pool.

Lenny...you make some good points but my situation was a lil different...I put the player in the tourney plus bought him in the calcutta assuming all the risk & giving my player a free roll & would have split any profit 50/50...my player decided to get drunk whole weekend & not give a honest shot at it...If my player would have took it serious & still fell short i would have probally brought some more bullets & tried to match up to get money back & salvage weekend if possible...but after what i saw was no way gonna throw good money after bad
 
I think there is a reasonable expectation that a player who plays in a tournament will play in the tournament.

To flip off a calcutta mid tourney is bad form, IMO and is one of the main reasons that people keep their money in their pockets instead of participating.
 
Lenny...you make some good points but my situation was a lil different...I put the player in the tourney plus bought him in the calcutta assuming all the risk & giving my player a free roll & would have split any profit 50/50...my player decided to get drunk whole weekend & not give a honest shot at it...If my player would have took it serious & still fell short i would have probally brought some more bullets & tried to match up to get money back & salvage weekend if possible...but after what i saw was no way gonna throw good money after bad

IMO this is much different and its his loss since you were being a good guy and putting him in with no risk and a gain of 50%. I am not referring to backers which is what you were doing but to the guys who are just side betting or gambling via calcutta who are not directly involved with the player. Sorry to hear that happened and I am sure you wont do business with the guy again, his loss. :cool:
 
IMO this is much different and its his loss since you were being a good guy and putting him in with no risk and a gain of 50%. I am not referring to backers which is what you were doing but to the guys who are just side betting or gambling via calcutta who are not directly involved with the player. Sorry to hear that happened and I am sure you wont do business with the guy again, his loss. :cool:

Agreed....I've bought players in calcutta's for over 20 years & agree with your assessment on it...it's gambling...when i was really into it i had a decent record for picking the winner...I use to figure out the top 3 or 4 pre-tourney favorites...watch them hit balls before tournement...go b/s with them & buy the one or 2 that i thought were hungry & really wanted it,,now i dont hit every tournement & got out of the know so it's really gambling now when I buy a player...We had a player in New Orleans years ago that was known to be a big risk to buy...He was one of the best in the city but if he was in losers bracket & wound up gambling he'd forfeit his match...lots of people got mad at him for it...myself ida put him on notice after 1st time & if he did it again he wouldn't be bid off in calcutta but it never happened that way & there was a buyer beware invisible sign that went with the player.
 
This reminds me of a team tourny in which a player was playing jam up. The team had promises for this player that he would watch his intake for the weekend and he did. Another player on the team was assigned to keep a eye on him as he doomed with him as well. Sunday morning arrives and a frantic phone call from the room mate to the rest of the team informs them their horse is missing.

They find him at the tourny site sloshed. At least he wasn't late but they find him being buddie buddie with the team they are about to play. They lose the match and question their horse on what happened...seems he won some money gambling that nite but not much. The guys were buying drinks free all nite and he had a great time with his new friends.
 
Joey, I know what your saying but as I said, no pool player has an obligation to the people betting on the side whether its the rail or a calcutta. Most of those people wont be giving up an jelly anyway and that is a part of what is wrong with pool too. If those players got a 10% jelly on all the side betting they would have a couple extra grand a year but most people are cheapskates and would not buy the guy a beer. How much is bet on the side on Shane when he plays a TAR match?, lets just say $20,000, he does not get any love from those people who bet on him and win some dough.

I respect backers because they are making the action happen in the first place, putting up $10,000 to win $5,000-$6,000 while people on here and elsewhere bet $500 and win $500 usually. I wish The Action Room had a 10% player jelly fund for the TAR matches, would be pretty cool to see $500 get shipped to the player with a thanks and good shooting note from x, y and z on AZ Billiards.

Imagine Oscar or someone like that receiving that money and feeling good that the guys betting on the side appreciate him playing hard and winning, being true fans. So a player wins and gets nothing from the rail but if he loses he gets degraded and called a dog or dump artist, that is just disgusting.

As for what a player should do, be honest and not cheat, dump or con. Not showing up for a match because he stayed out late is not something that I see as wrong regardless if people bet on him in the calcutta, its the players choice but with a pro player I think expectations are higher. I can understand people being upset and especially a room owner or promoter if the players in the final chop it up at a big event without playing a match and putting on a show for the spectators.

Players pay an entry to play in a tournament and try and win it, not to become part of the process of gambling and the calcutta. Calcuttas are illegal in most states so a player supporting that is not helpful for pool at all and when the calcutta is busted and its in the local paper and on the news then it gives pool a black eye and bad image and do not say it has never happened because it has. So what is really wrong with pool Joey, the illegal activity and support of it or the players not taking part of it? Personally I think gambling on pool is fun and calcuttas too but totally understand the guys walking the line and not taking part in it, its THEIR choice.

If pool had real money in it then calcuttas would not be needed, pool is a 2nd class sport because its in the game section at Barnes and Nobles. We have big sports here in the USA and pool is not one of them, its not a spectator sport so not many watch it and therefor sponsor dollars go elsewhere. Its popular in Asia because they do not have the big sports like NFL, NBA, MLB and whatnot like we do along with Nascar and a ton of other things. Pool is what is wrong with pool, its a subculture that us diehards love, it would be cool if it was on ESPN like it should, broadcast live and big sponsors behind it or would it be? Maybe the allure to us in the subculture is the fact that it is an underground game so to speak, small and tight nit community with the players accessible to the fans, we might not like it as much if it blew up and everyone was doing it.

I see many people on here who lose a bet on a guy and whine about how the guy played, like when Earl lost it when he was tied at 65 or something in a race to 75 and just gave up. I bet on Earl and was disappointed but it was his choice, I knew a meltdown was possible and he owes nothing to me or the rest of us who bet on him. I think some people do not look at pool players as human being but more as racehorses, stroke them while they are running good and when they are not so hot then they are dog food. That to me is what is wrong with pool.

As usual you make some good points.

Giving up jelly to the players is a major gripe that I have. I have always believed as you do, that MOST people who win money on players DO NOT GIVE UP 10%, let alone 20% to players. I think that is BRAGGADOCIO at its best.

When a tournament's popularity is DIRECTLY tied to the size of the Calcutta, players, who participate in the tournament have a RESPONSIBILITY to fulfill their contract. If not, the players should stay away from the event. This mentality of I don't owe anyone anything. I put up my entry fee and takes my chances is bullshit. The event at White Diamonds in Lafayette, LA is popular with stake horses, side betters, players BECAUSE of the Calcutta. When a player decides that they don't want to play from the one loss side, their lack of responsibility puts a black mark on the Calcutta. Calcutta buyers who purchase players who QUIT playing just because of whatever reason, leave a bad taste in the Calcutta buyer's mouth. Sometimes those Calcutta buyers permanently remove themselves from Calcutta buying in the future.

The players KNOW that this event is built on the back of the Calcutta BEFORE THEY ENTER. The players know that they have a RIGHT to purchase half of themselves in the event. They also KNOW that they can purchase all of themselves if they are the highest bidder.

No matter what excuse the players give for not showing up for their single elimination match, they are discouraging and HURTING the event with their lack of honor and responsibility. That is what is wrong with pool. Sure there are many other important things that are wrong with pool but until players start acting honorably and respectfully TO ALL CONCERNED, pool will continue to be looked at, as you say, as a second class game, played by a bunch of degenerates.

You don't get any argument from me about how some players are put on a pedestal when they are winning and they are dirt under someone's shoes when they are losing. This changes, IMO, when the player has respect for himself and the sport and displays this whether he is winning or losing.

I believe that players earn respect by how they act in private, in public and IN TOURNAMENTS.

Quitting because you got knocked into the loser's bracket is for LOSERS. (And this applies to tournaments where there is NO CALCUTTA as well as tournaments where calcuttas are allowed.)
 
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I know in one particular tournament I was sitting in the hot seat waiting on my match when I got a call that my ex-wife was en route to the ER.... It wasn't a big tournament and I had went for $40 in the calcutta and got my half it was a winner take all calcutta.... I walked over to the guy that had my other half and explained the situation to him and handed him $20.... I really didn't feel that anything else would have been right....
 
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