money game king vs money tournament king

rossaroni said:
Hail Mary Shot said:
Because people here are not that easy to jump in the bandwagon. When someone beats Yang one time, can we say that that person who defeated him is already considered the best?[/QUOTE

If someone proved that they deserve to challenge him by beating just about every other top player for $, then I wouldn't have a problem with that. If it is a long race under equal conditions. Of course, there may be some debate, but I don't think it would be out of line for someone to say that this person is the best, if they defeated Yang and everyone else in long races. I am not saying Yang is the best, but as far as $, he has to be at the top right now. Nobody seems to be eager to challenge him playing 9-ball.
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that is not yet conclusive my friend. have the sponsors do their share and then we would see some very good matches. not just Yang and Orcullo, but also others.
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SixSence said:
Before the Orcullo vs. Yang match, mostly everyone favored Orcullo and talked about this match making him the undeniable money game king of the world. If he had won, there would of been no talk of an "out of form" Yang, or the need for more than one match to establish the true best. That's not very fair to Yang. Everyone has it set in their minds that the Phillipine players are by far the best in the world, and this just goes to show you that no challenge match will change what people want to believe. Isn't the whole point of an extremely long race spread out over several days to eliminate any luck, bad rolls, or 'bad days' from the equation? I think Yang deserves the title and respect that went with the match, and he should only have to defend it under his terms when he wants to. There's no need for him to prove any further that he's the best 9ball money player around nowadays.
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that is just an inconclusive speculation. I wouldn't say that if Yang loses means he won't have a chance again for a rematch. actually, it's nice to see that we have these certain matchups to enjoy over and over again. that shows to prove that there is no such thing as chicken shit between these players. Isn't it nice to see that these players are more motivated to play again rather than one refusing a rematch because he had already lost and was traumatized by it? are you suggesting that a single match is enough for you to enjoy? I don't like the notion of saying "I'll retire while I'm ahead", it only shows fear of losing to some competition.

Anyway, Yang is not the best 9-ball money player nowadays. he's one of the best ! ;)
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
that is just an inconclusive speculation. I wouldn't say that if Yang loses means he won't have a chance again for a rematch. actually, it's nice to see that we have these certain matchups to enjoy over and over again. that shows to prove that there is no such thing as chicken shit between these players. Isn't it nice to see that these players are more motivated to play again rather than one refusing a rematch because he had already lost and was traumatized by it? are you suggesting that a single match is enough for you to enjoy? I don't like the notion of saying "I'll retire while I'm ahead", it only shows fear of losing to some competition.

Anyway, Yang is not the best 9-ball money player nowadays. he's one of the best ! ;)
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It has nothing to do with whether or not I would like to see more of these matches. Of course I would. Anyone would. It just bothers me that a lot of people are trying to defend Dennis after his loss because they want to believe he and the other Filipino players are still the best in the world. Saying "Yang caught Dennis when he was off," or that Yang now needs to play every other top Filipino to truly prove himself, or that one set doesn't prove anything is completely hypocrytical and unfair to Yang. The best money player in the Phillipines according to many people including Efren himself was the representative. The match carried the title of money game king, was completely fair, a long-long race, spread out over several days on Orcullo's own turf. There's no room for luck, or excuses of playing bad in a format like this, with 2 players of this caliber that are expected to come through in the clutch. Yang should get the title and respect that he deserves, and shouldn't have to immediately rematch or play someone else in order to further prove himself. There should be no question as to who is the best 9ball money player as of now. I highly doubt any of you would be questioning it if Dennis won.
 
At this point, Yang has earned it. Until they have a re-match(race to 60 again), he is King. Even then if Yang loses, it will be 1 match each. (so you will need a tie-breaker)....This can take forever...with 9ball.

In the meantime, if Dennis beats him in a race to 11 tournament, fine.. he has a number in tournament wins.

Lets all accept that 2 players played, 1 won. (What's wrong with the picture here?)

By the way, I just saw Yang play "Live" (on TV-Guiness9ball today)..he lost to Alcano, some bad rolls. But still a great display by both players.

I am a fan of all great players regardless of nationality or race. I'm thankful these players are around in this era. (especially efren)
 
SixSence said:
It has nothing to do with whether or not I would like to see more of these matches. Of course I would. Anyone would. It just bothers me that a lot of people are trying to defend Dennis after his loss because they want to believe he and the other Filipino players are still the best in the world. Saying "Yang caught Dennis when he was off," or that Yang now needs to play every other top Filipino to truly prove himself, or that one set doesn't prove anything is completely hypocrytical and unfair to Yang. The best money player in the Phillipines according to many people including Efren himself was the representative. The match carried the title of money game king, was completely fair, a long-long race, spread out over several days on Orcullo's own turf. There's no room for luck, or excuses of playing bad in a format like this, with 2 players of this caliber that are expected to come through in the clutch. Yang should get the title and respect that he deserves, and shouldn't have to immediately rematch or play someone else in order to further prove himself. There should be no question as to who is the best 9ball money player as of now. I highly doubt any of you would be questioning it if Dennis won.
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amen bro!!!!
 
smashmouth said:
long race, big stakes, even money

NOBODY touches Efren, ANY game

If Yang wants it, he needs to hang around Manilla a little longer with about 25k, Efren backs down from nobody

people forget, when fillipinos speak about Dennis being the best at cash and Ronnie being the best at rotation and such and such a player being the best at whatever.....

it's all really a discussion about second place

it's a given over there, a given, that Efren is King at cash and tournaments, all games
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I guess Efren GAVE Orcullo the money king crown just to see if he could wear it huh?

So Efren was just pulling the world's leg when he said he could not beat Orcullo at gambling.

And so now that Efren sees that the money king crown does not fit Orcullo's head, Efren will have to step up and snatch it off of Yang's head where it is currently resting. OK, I got it. :rolleyes:
JoeyA
 
SixSence said:
It has nothing to do with whether or not I would like to see more of these matches. Of course I would. Anyone would. It just bothers me that a lot of people are trying to defend Dennis after his loss because they want to believe he and the other Filipino players are still the best in the world. Saying "Yang caught Dennis when he was off," or that Yang now needs to play every other top Filipino to truly prove himself, or that one set doesn't prove anything is completely hypocrytical and unfair to Yang. The best money player in the Phillipines according to many people including Efren himself was the representative. The match carried the title of money game king, was completely fair, a long-long race, spread out over several days on Orcullo's own turf. There's no room for luck, or excuses of playing bad in a format like this, with 2 players of this caliber that are expected to come through in the clutch. Yang should get the title and respect that he deserves, and shouldn't have to immediately rematch or play someone else in order to further prove himself. There should be no question as to who is the best 9ball money player as of now. I highly doubt any of you would be questioning it if Dennis won.
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I understand your sentiment regarding this one. some people here maybe out of line defending Dennis, but some aren't. You can't blame these guys for also speculating,especially the ones who played and saw Dennis several times already behind closed doors, to still have a doubt. Every great player had gone under the thread of criticism, not just Yang. the great Efren had also gone the same treatment, even branding him as Mr. second place (that comment is somewhat a form of ridicule) before he got to the point of earning the most coveted respect that he deserved by winning numerous tourneys. patience is a virtue.

regarding whether there would be questions if Dennis won? there will always be questions. don't forget that he still has to go under the needle of the best the U.S. got and has yet to offer. ;)
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
Because people here are not that easy to jump in the bandwagon. When someone beats Yang one time, can we say that that person who defeated him is already considered the best?
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Just like today, Yang lost to Ronnie Alcano and got his a$$ eliminated from
the Jakarta leg of the Guiness 9-Ball Tour. That does mean Ronnie owns him now? :D
 
gopi-1 said:
Just like today, Yang lost to Ronnie Alcano and got his a$$ eliminated from
the Jakarta leg of the Guiness 9-Ball Tour. That does mean Ronnie owns him now? :D
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Please don't compare one set in a tournament to the format that was planned months in advance with dennis and yang.
 
SixSence said:
Please don't compare one set in a tournament to the format that was planned months in advance with dennis and yang.
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I wasn't comparing, I was just giving an example what Hail Mary Shot meant.
He said one loss doesn't mean somebody owns you, it takes a constant
beating from the same individual to convince him, or me for that matter...
 
JoeyA said:
I guess Efren GAVE Orcullo the money king crown just to see if he could wear it huh?

So Efren was just pulling the world's leg when he said he could not beat Orcullo at gambling.

And so now that Efren sees that the money king crown does not fit Orcullo's head, Efren will have to step up and snatch it off of Yang's head where it is currently resting. OK, I got it. :rolleyes:
JoeyA
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Did you ever here Efren's favorite quote? " I got lucky.."
He says that all the time. I don't take him seriously.
He is just a very modest guy. He doesn't go around beating his chest after he wins the "King of the Hill" or even a fun charity game.

When he says Dennis is the man, I believe he is just making better games for himself. After all, why should Efren spot everybody and their mother--
Dennis is King!;)
 
Snapshot9 said:
First, I would insist that both players use THEIR OWN MONEY, that way it is a
REAL money game, and they FEEL THE PAIN if they lose.

Second, a neutral site would have to be chosen.

Third, table conditions agreed upon.

Then I would offer up Johnny Archer, Rodney Morris, Corey Deuel, and maybe even Earl, and maybe Gabe.

It would be interesting to have 5-6 players from each side, and play round robin sets (best 3 out 5, race to 11, 8, 9, and 10 ball) and see who came out on top. We could call it the 'Parica Cup'.
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Alright dude, you're on crack. Deuel and Owen wouldn't stand a chance. Currently I'd give Rodney the best shot at taking down the filipino kings.

Speaking of bandwagons...I've noticed a lot here on azbilliards. For some reason everybody thinks Corey Deuel and Shane Van Boening are the greatest players around. Nobody gives Pagulayan the credit he deserves. And everyone is stunned that Yang could beat Orcollo. Personally I picked Yang over Orcollo, and I would again. I'll pick Alex over Deuel any day of the week. And I'll pick Efren over anyone in the world. Unless Earl gets his game back, Rodney and Archer are the only Americans that can compete with these guys, and Archer isn't getting any younger. Maybe in a few years Corey will be at that level, but not yet. And what happened to Thorston and Ralf. Why aren't these guys considered as greats?
 
wow

to say corey has no chance is not fair .for one thing all of the top guys in the world ,thats the u.s. included play so close at nine ball its ridiculous.they are great players but maybe yang or dennis would like to play corey ,9ball,onehole,14.1, for that matter i will play either one of them all three games also.
 
john schmidt said:
to say corey has no chance is not fair .for one thing all of the top guys in the world ,thats the u.s. included play so close at nine ball its ridiculous.they are great players but maybe yang or dennis would like to play corey ,9ball,onehole,14.1, for that matter i will play either one of them all three games also.
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I was thinking the exact same thing, I've seen corey absolutely killing it and I think that other post was rediculous, saying that everyone likes corey just to jump on a bandwagon is ignorant, they all like him becuase they are educated pool players that recognize talent.
 
john schmidt said:
to say corey has no chance is not fair .for one thing all of the top guys in the world ,thats the u.s. included play so close at nine ball its ridiculous.they are great players but maybe yang or dennis would like to play corey ,9ball,onehole,14.1, for that matter i will play either one of them all three games also.
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You can't honestly say that you'd back Corey playing even in a race to 60 against either of these guys, could you? Not that you would have to. I'm sure Yang and Orcollo would have no problem giving some weight.

Edit: With all due respect, I wouldn't back you against them either playing 9-ball. 14.1 is a different story as I think you are one of the best around playing straight pool.

thrasher789 said:
I was thinking the exact same thing, I've seen corey absolutely killing it and I think that other post was rediculous, saying that everyone likes corey just to jump on a bandwagon is ignorant, they all like him becuase they are educated pool players that recognize talent.
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If you want to talk about young talent...let's talk about Wu. Sorry, I wouldn't back Corey against Wu either.
 
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I still gotta disagree with you, whenever I see corey play I'm impressed and think "wow, this is how I want to play" he has control, creative ways out of messes, and solid safety and runouts, I think he's an all around great player who has many years ahead of him.
 
hi

with all due respect you would not have to stake me against the top pinoys,ricky bird in mobile already did that .i played alcano 1000 ahead sets and after many hours broke even playing even 10ball.the next day we played a race to eleven 10ball for 1000 and i beat him 11-1 in front of a hundred people and he broke his cue down.i managed to break and run 8 of those 11 games so my break was working.which is my point exactly ,if any of the best players have their break working it will look like the other guy has no chance.furthermore i did not say i would play them 9ball but if i did its going to be closer than if they play onehole or 14.1.again just to clear what im saying up i am officially asking yang or dennis to play ,onehole,14.1,9ball.we have to play all three and if they beat me like that i will be the first to say they are the better all around player.just a side note i was sitting their as corey asked efren to play 9ball for 3000 even and efren said no lets play more onehole.
 
cuesrus said:
Did you ever here Efren's favorite quote? " I got lucky.."
He says that all the time. I don't take him seriously.
He is just a very modest guy. He doesn't go around beating his chest after he wins the "King of the Hill" or even a fun charity game.

When he says Dennis is the man, I believe he is just making better games for himself. After all, why should Efren spot everybody and their mother--
Dennis is King!;)
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I still love that that Eren dance though. :D
 
john schmidt said:
with all due respect you would not have to stake me against the top pinoys,ricky bird in mobile already did that .i played alcano 1000 ahead sets and after many hours broke even playing even 10ball.the next day we played a race to eleven 10ball for 1000 and i beat him 11-1 in front of a hundred people and he broke his cue down.i managed to break and run 8 of those 11 games so my break was working.which is my point exactly ,if any of the best players have their break working it will look like the other guy has no chance.furthermore i did not say i would play them 9ball but if i did its going to be closer than if they play onehole or 14.1.again just to clear what im saying up i am officially asking yang or dennis to play ,onehole,14.1,9ball.we have to play all three and if they beat me like that i will be the first to say they are the better all around player.just a side note i was sitting their as corey asked efren to play 9ball for 3000 even and efren said no lets play more onehole.
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I agree that 9-ball usually favors the better break. Hell, I've put together 3 racks before. So what's to stop me from running 9 or 10? Sure if my break was working well and I was playing my best game, I'm probably capable of it. Does that mean I can compete at your level? Not a chance. You'd have to give me 20 games to 30.

I know anyone can break and run out a 9-ball rack. But not everyone can run 6 or 7. Even for guys like you, I'm sure you're very excited when you put together a string like that.

You're right, the top players play 9-ball fairly evenly. But the subtle differences will show up in a race to 60 (more than in a race to 10 ahead). We're all human. But some of us are more human than others.

BTW: John, please understand that I don't mean any disrespect. You have a very strong game. It would be tough to find a better all around player.
 
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