Money players and the IRS?
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH!
and for those that want the loophole.
It is perfectly feasable to be a great pool player making good money, and at the same time, a crappy horse picker where you lose it all back.
Offset your winnings by going to the track, and picking up the high stakes losing tickets off the floor.
they have to PROVE Otherwise.
Although for some tournaments, i've seen the W-2 come out on the spot.
Don't know if you can offset that income.
and for those that want the loophole.
It is perfectly feasable to be a great pool player making good money, and at the same time, a crappy horse picker where you lose it all back.
Offset your winnings by going to the track, and picking up the high stakes losing tickets off the floor.
they have to PROVE Otherwise.
Although for some tournaments, i've seen the W-2 come out on the spot.
Don't know if you can offset that income.
We give out w2's in our larger events...
The it's up to them to report.
The it's up to them to report.
SUPERSTAR said:
True but The IRS willl want to know how you got that home on the golf course.
and those tickets better make sense.
If they think you are f*ckin with them, they will examine the tickets closely.
For example, if you have one ticket for $2K bought at the same time as another ticket at a distant window for $500 on different horse, they wont buy it and will start discusssing tax fraud with you.
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also you can only deduct losses up to winnings, and you have to be able to itemize and take schedule A to do even that. Now if you shoot pool for a living it would be self employment income and all expenses (not just losses) would be deductible against the income, but any profit would be subject to both income tax and social security.
and yeah the irs can do what they call a lifestyle audit, where they look at all the money you have going out (mortgage, car pmt, etc) plus they factor in how much it costs to live where you are and what size family you have......then you better have the income to cover all that......or alot of loans or something. Most cheaters are just lucky they never get looked at, if youre flagrant enough to get redflagged and audited normally you are gonna owe back taxes and penalties.
and yeah the irs can do what they call a lifestyle audit, where they look at all the money you have going out (mortgage, car pmt, etc) plus they factor in how much it costs to live where you are and what size family you have......then you better have the income to cover all that......or alot of loans or something. Most cheaters are just lucky they never get looked at, if youre flagrant enough to get redflagged and audited normally you are gonna owe back taxes and penalties.
Irs
SSSSSSHHHHHHHH is right. This makes me very nervous.
Yhey got me about 6 years ago and it still hurts. I guess that I really have nobody to blame but myself. I really thought I was being very smart. They are as street smart as anybody in the world and they have heard every story and trick anyone can dream up.
They finally stated rather firmly that they were tired of BS and would listen to no more.
True, you can claim losses up to the winnings and all your expenses, but you had better keep itemized, weekly, and monthly expenses and be able to explain every nickel.
Don't dare buy a new car or even think about a new home. Trust Me!
How much, I'm too emabarrassed to say.
SSSSSSHHHHHHHH is right. This makes me very nervous.
Yhey got me about 6 years ago and it still hurts. I guess that I really have nobody to blame but myself. I really thought I was being very smart. They are as street smart as anybody in the world and they have heard every story and trick anyone can dream up.
They finally stated rather firmly that they were tired of BS and would listen to no more.
True, you can claim losses up to the winnings and all your expenses, but you had better keep itemized, weekly, and monthly expenses and be able to explain every nickel.
Don't dare buy a new car or even think about a new home. Trust Me!
How much, I'm too emabarrassed to say.
well no theres 2 different ways to do it. If your pool money is considered "hobby income" then you would deduct ONLY losses, up to the amount of winnings, and it would all be on the schedule A.
If you shoot pool for a living you would be considered self employed, like a subcontractor, you have your own business, THEN you would get your losses as well as all your related expenses (travel, cue, meals while on the road, etc). Grant you I have never dealt with a pool player as a client, and there are probably some wrinkles there to be dealt with but thats it in a nutshell.
If you shoot pool for a living you would be considered self employed, like a subcontractor, you have your own business, THEN you would get your losses as well as all your related expenses (travel, cue, meals while on the road, etc). Grant you I have never dealt with a pool player as a client, and there are probably some wrinkles there to be dealt with but thats it in a nutshell.
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
What Actually worked for me - 25 years ago..........
After being arrested at a tournament in Mississippi for carrying a canceled weapon, they took all my belongings, New Continental, cues, clothes & many $K’s in cash.
There was an IRS agent there and he said they were going to hold everything.
I got a good local Mississippi (Walls, MI) lawyer and he found an old law on the MI books that said - You could carry a concealed weapon IF you were over 50 miles from home and had more than $50 on you.
I had forgotten all about helping a friend the previous year working some hours in his poolroom for just a couple of bucks an hour. He had filed a W2 and I must have filed because it was on record. I think that was what saved my butt.
My brother’s lawyers told me to make sure I file (for at least the next 5 Years) as a Professional Pool Player and keep all receipts and records. He said they weren’t going to follow me around the country and that my money winnings (after expenses) MIGHT always equal a WASH.
They weren’t very happy having to give me back everything they had confiscated and I did exactly what I was told to do by the tax lawyer.
I never heard anymore about it.
TY & GL
After being arrested at a tournament in Mississippi for carrying a canceled weapon, they took all my belongings, New Continental, cues, clothes & many $K’s in cash.
There was an IRS agent there and he said they were going to hold everything.
I got a good local Mississippi (Walls, MI) lawyer and he found an old law on the MI books that said - You could carry a concealed weapon IF you were over 50 miles from home and had more than $50 on you.
I had forgotten all about helping a friend the previous year working some hours in his poolroom for just a couple of bucks an hour. He had filed a W2 and I must have filed because it was on record. I think that was what saved my butt.
My brother’s lawyers told me to make sure I file (for at least the next 5 Years) as a Professional Pool Player and keep all receipts and records. He said they weren’t going to follow me around the country and that my money winnings (after expenses) MIGHT always equal a WASH.
They weren’t very happy having to give me back everything they had confiscated and I did exactly what I was told to do by the tax lawyer.
I never heard anymore about it.
TY & GL
OldHasBeen said:
So much for due process.
OldHasBeen said:
So much for the second amendment of the law of the land.
OldHasBeen said:
So much for the fifth amendment of the law of the land.
OldHasBeen said:
Did they say they're sorry for violating the law and your civil rights? (rhetorical question)
Jeff Livingston
parallel governaments
chefjeff said:So much for due process.
My foot.there is none
So much for the second amendment of the law of the land.
1) Only criminals have that privilege
So much for the fifth amendment of the law of the land.
2) you must be kidding.a female officer will seduce u and make u pour your heart
Did they say they're sorry for violating the law and your civil rights? (rhetorical question)
3) They have the right to abuse you and torture you.
Wake Up America.It is not the elected representatives that run this governament(nation).There are parallel Governaments in USA and they are IRS & your local police.This is called Democracy.
Vagabond-a throwback Hippy, Flower child
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vagabond said:chefjeff said:So much for due process.
My foot.there is none
So much for the second amendment of the law of the land.
1) Only criminals have that privilege
So much for the fifth amendment of the law of the land.
2) you must be kidding.a female officer will seduce u and make u pour your heart
Did they say they're sorry for violating the law and your civil rights? (rhetorical question)
3) They have the right to abuse you and torture you.
Wake Up America.It is not the elected representatives that run this governament(nation).There are parallel Governaments in USA and they are IRS & your local police.This is called Democracy.
Vagabond-a throwback Hippy, Flower child
What George Carlin said in his HBO special. "Wake up, the people do not own this country big business does."
This following is real and true. If a politician wants an office he is bought. I do volunteer work with abused victims and the following is fact.
If you are Catholic, please do not take this as a strike to your beliefs.
The group I am working with made appointments to meet with senators in Albany NY to discuss a new bill to help abused victims receive some sort of compensation. On the day of their visit, not a single senator was in their office. One very kind secretary (I'll keep all names out of this) told the group that the Bishop had just called each senator and told them not to speak with the group or they will loose support. She also stated that if asked she would deny this.
Here is the deal. The RCC (Roman Catholic Church) is undergoing scrutiny as they have a significantly high number of pedophiles in their organization, recent count is 10% and moving up quickly. Belief from priest who have left this organization say that this is only the tip. Passing this new bill would put the RCC at risk through convictions meaning the RCC can loose quite a bit of money.
Add to this that G. Bush just recently confirmed the Vatican as an immune state, simply put no American citizen can sue them. Meanwhile all these victims who are American citizens, the people, take second seat to an organization that exists outside the US. Consider the RCC as a very rich company.
This is just one example and there are many more of other issues were the people are last and Democracy (People have the power) does not exist. I still believe that this is the greatest country.
If you really want to see dirt, check out this video. Most stuff that happens, the government knows that people will perceive as unbelievable and they bank on it. What you will view was to be aired on TV, it was crushed and all tapes were ordered to be destroyed. One technician actually made a copy so all would not be lost. Here it is http://www.rense.com/general61/appallingconspiracyof.htm
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An old time hustler name Troy Richards, from St. Louis and he passed away several years ago, told me that the IRS called him in a few times to question his finances & property. He was serious when he told me that each time he told the IRS that if they wanted him to list a profession, he was 50% owner of an Air Barrel Factory. He said that he tried to explain to the IRS agent what exactly an Air Barrel was & they would get so confused & frustrated they would just tell him to finally leave.
I do know that the IRS considers Professional Gambler as a profession. The poster that earlier stated that you should go to the track & pick up losing tickets to claim as loses is correct. With poker tournaments being such big money these days, if you won say $200,000 in a tournament the taxes would eat you up. An easier way than going to the track looking for big money losing tickets, is to just go to Vegas. Bet say $50,000 on a sporting event and bet $50,000 on the other team as well. One ticket would be a winner, the other a loser. Costs you 10% juice but then you would have a losing ticket to show as a loss. 10% is much better than 28% or whatever the IRS would get you for.
I do know that the IRS considers Professional Gambler as a profession. The poster that earlier stated that you should go to the track & pick up losing tickets to claim as loses is correct. With poker tournaments being such big money these days, if you won say $200,000 in a tournament the taxes would eat you up. An easier way than going to the track looking for big money losing tickets, is to just go to Vegas. Bet say $50,000 on a sporting event and bet $50,000 on the other team as well. One ticket would be a winner, the other a loser. Costs you 10% juice but then you would have a losing ticket to show as a loss. 10% is much better than 28% or whatever the IRS would get you for.
yep thats true.......in an audit with the IRS they dont have to prove anything....YOU DO. Unless you can prove you spent money on this or that, then you are out of gas, of course it all depends on the auditor, and the client. If your records are in order and you are missing one little thing, ive had auditors give clients the benefit of the doubt. But if your records are all out of whack and things seem fishy, it just gets worse and worse. And yeah joe blow does this and gets away with that, only because he never got audited. Its really pretty easy to spot all but the most sophisticated scams when youre talking audits....unless the auditor isnt sharp (which ive had happen too). I had one auditor make a math error right in front of me once and undercharged my client by about 15,000.....and i never said a word 