More Diamond 7' bounce

garczar said:
What about balls hitting at an angle like a natural 3rail? I guess that would be spin-dependent?
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The ball loses speed in the in/out direction and can gain speed in the along-the-rail direction. It might be possible for the ball to pick up net speed, but I'd like to see some measurements. A good test would be to send a ball into a corner at about 45 degrees with super spin.
 
the cueball shot into the rail can come back to you at a greater speed than when it went forward into the rail.

it cant if hitting into a sold wall of course. but the cushion is elastic and offers some but little bounce off. like a trampoline or something.
also if the cueball left the table slightly airborne off the rail it would fly faster back as it wouldn't have as much friction.

none of that is likely to happen or to be used or noticed in a game.
 
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rexus31 said:
Are they one piece or doweled together?
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It's been 4 years, but when the dealer and I were assembling my table, the bottom of the rail, while laminated I think, seemed to be full length. I would say it was one piece as that is the way it was shipped.
I still haven't heard of any, way too many modifications, or changing their recipe over and over for their tables. What we have is a simple rail angle change, and possibly a rail rubber change, but maybe not even that as maybe those rail cushions were used before. But even if the cushions were changed with the rail angle change, that amounts to what at the most, a rail angle change and cushion change to go along with it. One basic change in all those years. Hardly the exaggerated claims of way too many modifications or changing the recipe over and over.
Then again maybe there has been more changes I don't know about. Do I like Diamonds pocket angles with their excessively deep shelfs, no I don't, but as to a quality table, and if I were someone that played tournaments, I would want a Diamond table for my home. While I don't play tournaments, I do have a Diamond Professional table and it is one of the best investments I have ever made. Would I be happy with a Gold Crown for a home table, you bet, but there is no such thing within 3hours of where I live to play on. The leagues I play have Diamonds and Valleys with worsted cloth. Gold Crown's are a nonexistent item. There is a hall with some when we go visit family 3 1/2 hr away.
May be wrong, but I do think Rasson may slowly gain some ground in the US.
 
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maha said:
... it cant if hitting into a sold wall of course. but the cushion is elastic and offers some but little bounce off. like a trampoline or something.
...
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The best an elastic collision can give you is no loss of energy. It can't add energy. The cue ball will lose energy when hitting the cushion. If not, just put a ball between two really, really bouncy rails and generate energy. Doesn't happen.
 
yes but i am assuming a super elastic cushion so its possible. like a trampoline would propel something higher than it is dropped from.

of a golf ball dropped may bounce higher than it was released from.

i was replying to the posts that says physics keeps something from rebounding faster when it hits a wall. that is the conservation of energy. and true
but i think it was hooks law that says about rebounding or implies it. when the wall isnt static. or something like that.

or maybe relate to a diving board where you make it spring higher so you jump higher from it after your last bounce

of course i am exaggerating the spring back a cushion may or could have for demonstration purposes..
 
maha said:
yes but i am assuming a super elastic cushion so its possible. like a trampoline would propel something higher than it is dropped from.

of a golf ball dropped may bounce higher than it was released from.

i was replying to the posts that says physics keeps something from rebounding faster when it hits a wall. that is the conservation of energy. and true
but i think it was hooks law that says about rebounding or implies it. when the wall isnt static. or something like that.

or maybe relate to a diving board where you make it spring higher so you jump higher from it after your last bounce

of course i am exaggerating the spring back a cushion may or could have for demonstration purposes..
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A golf ball can not bounce higher than its release point unless the surface its dropped on adds something back as in a spring effect. Modern clubs are designed/built with just this 'spring effect' to achieve longer ball flight. The amount is the 'coefficient of restitution' ,or COR, and its closely monitored/checked by both the USGA and R&A.
 
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the golf ball could add the spring effect. it can come from either direction. as long as some extra energy is stored within it.
normally it would only go as high as it was dropped.

in other words if say the floor was more springy than the energy it lost, then it would go higher or possibly faster. or simply added energy like you throwing it down, as that added the energy to make it go higher but not necessarily faster..
 
maha said:
the golf ball could add the spring effect. it can come from either direction. as long as some extra energy is stored within it.
normally it would only go as high as it was dropped.

in other words if say the floor was more springy than the energy it lost, then it would go higher or possibly faster. or simply added energy like you throwing it down, as that added the energy to make it go higher but not necessarily faster..
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got curious so just dropped a brand new golf ball on concrete from 6ft up. ball bounced back up roughly 3.5ish feet. did it 5 times and result was virtually same. surface would have to be really lively to make up the difference. or use a superball. Remember them??
 
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Bob Jewett said:
The best an elastic collision can give you is no loss of energy. It can't add energy. The cue ball will lose energy when hitting the cushion. If not, just put a ball between two really, really bouncy rails and generate energy. Doesn't happen.
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What if it jumps when hitting the rail? While it has air time, less resistance from the cloth going out than coming in...
 
maha said:
the golf ball could add the spring effect. it can come from either direction. as long as some extra energy is stored within it.
normally it would only go as high as it was dropped.

in other words if say the floor was more springy than the energy it lost, then it would go higher or possibly faster. or simply added energy like you throwing it down, as that added the energy to make it go higher but not necessarily faster..
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That’s not possible. You’re misunderstanding the physics.

About the best is a solid steel 1” diameter ball bearing being dropped onto a 1 ton huge block of perfectly smooth and thick plate of steel.
 
maha said:
yes but i am assuming a super elastic cushion so its possible. like a trampoline would propel something higher than it is dropped from.

of a golf ball dropped may bounce higher than it was released from.

i was replying to the posts that says physics keeps something from rebounding faster when it hits a wall. that is the conservation of energy. and true
but i think it was hooks law that says about rebounding or implies it. when the wall isnt static. or something like that.

or maybe relate to a diving board where you make it spring higher so you jump higher from it after your last bounce

of course i am exaggerating the spring back a cushion may or could have for demonstration purposes..
Click to expand...
maybe look some nice demonstration about physics. This is best example that i know. He is willing to bet his life..
 
garczar said:
got curious so just dropped a brand new golf ball on concrete from 6ft up. ball bounced back up roughly 3.5ish feet. did it 5 times and result was virtually same. surface would have to be really lively to make up the difference. or use a superball. Remember them??
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A Superball, when dropped by a simple release will not bounce higher than the drop point.
It will not, in fact bounce to the height it was released from.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Interesting observation from the Diamond rail basher:

The past week I played in 3 different rooms in the Philadelphia area with Diamond 7' tables. All were Blue label, Simonis cloth, excellent condition, in "player's rooms".

First was Markley Billiards in Norrristown. I play there a ton. The 7' Diamonds are a bit faster than Gold Crown rails, but were quite nice IMO. They are all Blue Label. Half are about 2 years old, and the other half about 10 years old (Dymandwood pre-fire rails). They all play the same in the entire room.

Second was a private Nights of Columbus club in Claymont, Delaware, that had 3 7' Diamonds. I played a 3 set match on one of them. It was the slowest Diamond I've ever played on. I mean slower than a Gold Crown rail. My opponent goes there a lot (he's a Fargo 597), and he thinks they pulled the rail cloth too much during the install. He can't figure it out either. This is a Blue Label, about 10 years old (Dymandwood rails). He said of the 3 tables in that room, two play like that, and the third plays much faster. I only played the one. The third table is much newer, maybe 1-2 years old. I wonder if that one still has the factory cloth on it. Next time I go there I'll try to hit balls on that one.

The third was High Street Billiards in Pottstown, PA. This room just got 6 or 7 brand new Diamonds from this year's expo. Factory cloth install. They were installed about 1 month ago. They were possibly some of the bounciest tables I've played on. There were a few 620 Fargo speed players in this tournament, that all said the same. I played on 3 or 4 of them during the tournament, they all were super bouncy. Interestingly, this room also has 5 or 6 Gold Crown 5 tables. They were deader than a door nail. Someone changed the cushions on them a few years ago to the wrong one (the mechanic that now maintains them told me this). It was quite funny for us to go between the Gold Crowns and the Diamonds in this room. Talk about night and day.

I have not seen this much variation in Brunswick rails (with OEM cushions) in 30 years of playing, that I've seen in one week of playing on Diamond.

That's all for this episode;)
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So I take it you prefer the Brunswick over the Diamond?
 
for 9 foot i am a gold crown or older brunswick tables guy.

for any 7 foot table i relate it to playing bumper pool which is loved by beginners and kids.

unfortunately it is the wave of the future. the good news i wont be around for much of it.
 
maha said:
for 9 foot i am a gold crown or older brunswick tables guy.

for any 7 foot table i relate it to playing bumper pool which is loved by beginners and kids.

unfortunately it is the wave of the future. the good news i wont be around for much of it.
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That is just news, not good news.
 
muskyed said:
It's been 4 years, but when the dealer and I were assembling my table, the bottom of the rail, while laminated I think, seemed to be full length. I would say it was one piece as that is the way it was shipped.
I still haven't heard of any, way too many modifications, or changing their recipe over and over for their tables. What we have is a simple rail angle change, and possibly a rail rubber change, but maybe not even that as maybe those rail cushions were used before. But even if the cushions were changed with the rail angle change, that amounts to what at the most, a rail angle change and cushion change to go along with it. One basic change in all those years. Hardly the exaggerated claims of way too many modifications or changing the recipe over and over.
Then again maybe there has been more changes I don't know about. Do I like Diamonds pocket angles with their excessively deep shelfs, no I don't, but as to a quality table, and if I were someone that played tournaments, I would want a Diamond table for my home. While I don't play tournaments, I do have a Diamond Professional table and it is one of the best investments I have ever made. Would I be happy with a Gold Crown for a home table, you bet, but there is no such thing within 3hours of where I live to play on. The leagues I play have Diamonds and Valleys with worsted cloth. Gold Crown's are a nonexistent item. There is a hall with some when we go visit family 3 1/2 hr away.
May be wrong, but I do think Rasson may slowly gain some ground in the US.
Click to expand...
this is what I tell people who ask my opinion. If your buying a 7 foot table and want something that plays tough and you will need a good stroke diamond is all there is. If your buying a 9 foot you can save some money and buy a gold crown (an older one) and you will plenty happy. It will play great and last a life time.
 
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