More money in darts than pool!

Mr441

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I knew darts was popular but didn't realize how much until now. The 2009 World Darts Championships in Surrey, England has a total prize fund of 320,000 pounds and a first place prize of 90,000 pounds or 131,000 US dollars! Unbelievable! I'm starting to think if they had a chutes and ladders (the children's board game) championship it would pay more than pool.
 

n10spool

PHD in table mechanics
Silver Member
I'm still master rated but stopped for awhile I used to make $400-2,000 a week just playing in bars and local tournaments. All the money is in electronic darts ie qaurter drops . They do have $25,000 tourny and up to a million combined across several divisions c,b,a,aa,aaa,masters and grandmasters.

craig
 

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
I used to play in a dart league about 20 years ago. I was never very good, but it was only an excuse to get to drink in the bars underage anyway (shhh, don't tell anyone).

I did make one great memory though, I was playing some weird proposition bet and ended up dogging it to the point that I had ONE dart left and had no option but to hit a DOUBLE BULL to win. I took a deep breath, manned up, and nailed that double. It was a great feeling to pull off the miracle under pressure.

Sorry for the self-indulgent post. I just had to take a trip down memory lane. LOL
 

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
Here are the standings with tournament earnings :

http://www.pdpa.co.uk/merit.php

To get an aproximate US$ amount multiply the earnings in pounds by 1.5 (so Phil "the Power" Taylor has winnings of about $850K in tournaments this season ! ).

Note that the top players make a bunch more in exhibitions and of course endorsements.

Dave
 

Patrick53212

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Too funny!

On the timing for this post! I was just up in Oshkosh, WI this past weekend and had my darts with me. I am much better on the dart board than I am on the pool table and I am not exactly a slouch on the pool table. I am definitely playing in dart leagues next year as I did notice that there are a fair number of tournaments but that you must be a league member in order to play. Hell, I can even throw left handed...of course I can play pool left handed as well!

Patrick Troutman
 

Gregg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to play in a dart league about 20 years ago. I was never very good, but it was only an excuse to get to drink in the bars underage anyway (shhh, don't tell anyone).

I did make one great memory though, I was playing some weird proposition bet and ended up dogging it to the point that I had ONE dart left and had no option but to hit a DOUBLE BULL to win. I took a deep breath, manned up, and nailed that double. It was a great feeling to pull off the miracle under pressure.

Sorry for the self-indulgent post. I just had to take a trip down memory lane. LOL

Your still underage drinking on a fake ID? :wink:
 

tom mcgonagle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We're way behind the eight-ball, as they say, when it comes to revenue and money earned in the game of pool. We have limited expectations of ourselves and the game and never seek ways of improving our position. People with sponsorship money only look at one thing and that is , "What can I get in return on my investment?" We need to show them we are a large force in turns of numbers and we do have money to spend. I don't know if AZ has ever started a petition, to let the world know, how many of us are out there and we would like to see more of the game televised and bigger tournaments and prize money. I don't know how to set it up but it would be nice to see how many people would sign the petition. I know I'd be willing to sign.
 

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
Tom,

I hate to sound negative, but we don't even have a product to sell to ourselves...
The men and women professionals, outside the top 10 (and that is really stretching it IMO), cannot support a family on the yearly earnings from tournaments.

There are only 4 major tournaments in the USA for Men and only 6 stops for the Women's tour this year.

When these tournaments are supported by pool fans to 'standing room only' for the tournaments, then people with money will start to investigate.

Pool has to have, at the very least, a 'product' that is worth selling to its own fans before anyone else would be interested.

We're way behind the eight-ball, as they say, when it comes to revenue and money earned in the game of pool. We have limited expectations of ourselves and the game and never seek ways of improving our position. People with sponsorship money only look at one thing and that is , "What can I get in return on my investment?" We need to show them we are a large force in turns of numbers and we do have money to spend. I don't know if AZ has ever started a petition, to let the world know, how many of us are out there and we would like to see more of the game televised and bigger tournaments and prize money. I don't know how to set it up but it would be nice to see how many people would sign the petition. I know I'd be willing to sign.
 

tom mcgonagle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tom in Cincy, or anyone, It doesn't have to be a product related to pool. If we can show we're a strong force in numbers, you'd be surprised, how many different companies would come after us. Soda companies, fast food chains, clothing companies, Nikie, Adias, the possibilities are there. Cars, Shoes, products of everyday use. The last I knew fifteen million people in this country, alone, play pool, three times a week. We drive to the places, ah ha, Oil companies. I think they have some cash. I'm sure there are many other advertisers that might want to be involved with such a large audience.
 

frankncali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I dont think any major corporation really is interested in pool because the average person isnt interested in watching.
Take th dart tournament people are talking about. It will be on TV and this week alone I watched a dart tournament on ESPN. It was the semifinals and the placed was packed.

Darts and every other game offer a chance for two people to go head to head and play an exciting match. In pool we can watch one player boringly beat another player that never gets a chance.
Pool needs to figure out a way to make it more exciting shot for shot. It needs something to hook the viewer and the major corporations. NONE of the games/formats we have now do that.

I still believe that having two players race to 7 or 9 playing the ghost is pretty exciting and can offer a great finish. Anytime I have ever seen two players play the ghost against each other it captivated my attention.
 

speakers

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hmm, not sure if I believe that "darts pays more than pool". I think pool is more diversified and the money is spread out more. I would bet there are very, very few dart players that make very much money. Or even enough to to get them from one tournament to the next. And as far as endorsements, well I don't know. Maybe in other countries, but certainly not here. Go search for some dart DVD's to buy. Not much out there, so I don't think they're making much money in that field. And "dart schools" and traveling appearances and trick shot exhibitions? Not likely.

Obviously the dart world is getting sponsorships from somewhere, but where? Who is throwing in extra money? What companies are supporting the tournaments and adding the big bucks? Is it the playing equipment sponsors? Could it be? Dart equipment is cheap. A good set of darts is $60-200, an expensive set might run you $250-500. A good steel tip board is $40-75. Of course the GOOD electronic or coin op boards are much more, $1500+. And I doubt if you'd EVER find a dart case that cost more than $40. And that's pretty much all you need for equipment. No fancy racks, amazing chalk, fingered or fingerless gloves, perfect balls and spotted-measled-whiteys. As I mentioned before, good luck finding any kind of dvd's to buy and I know there are a few books out there, but not many. Now consider how many people on this forum own their own tables and what they've paid for them. And then add in how much is spent on cues and cases and other paraphernalia. So my point is, pool equipment supplies are much more costly and I would assume the pool equipment companies are making as much if not more profit that dart equipment companies, so how could the dart supply companies pay out more to tournaments and sponsorshipts than pool supply companies?

And although pool isn't on TV much, darts is virtually unseen on TV. And man, I can see why! Gees, that's BORING. I played darts for a number of years and I can sit through hours of matches, but it will not draw the attention or keep the attention of non-darters. The announcers sure are fun though! Almost like soccer! They're trying to make it exciting! :grin-square:

Somebody mentioned that there are only 4 major pool tournaments in the US, how many major dart tournaments are there? Is there some sort of "tour"? Last I knew there were only two major tournaments, but they didn't pay much, it was more of a qualifier than anything, but it's been awhile since I've followed anything in the dart world. I know $10,000-$25,000-50,000 guaranteed tournaments were somewhat common. Maybe 20-30 a year throughout the country. Are there more now? Are there very many with payouts over $50,000?
 

speakers

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I dont think any major corporation really is interested in pool because the average person isnt interested in watching.
Take th dart tournament people are talking about. It will be on TV and this week alone I watched a dart tournament on ESPN. It was the semifinals and the placed was packed.
QUOTE]

I would say the place was packed full of previous competitors. At dart tournaments a lot of people will stick around and watch the final matches and cheer on their favorite. Even locally and for small tournaments I haven't seen that in pool very often. At state dart tournaments there were always crowds watching the finals. SH*T! pool tournaments? Not much, maybe a handful of friends and teammates. Has anybody else noticed the difference in that? Maybe it's different for larger pool tournaments? Do you guys stick around and watch the final if you've lost out of the tournament? Even if it isn't your buddy or teammate?
 

memikey

Never Has Been
Silver Member
Hmm, not sure if I believe that "darts pays more than pool". I think pool is more diversified and the money is spread out more. I would bet there are very, very few dart players that make very much money. Or even enough to to get them from one tournament to the next. And as far as endorsements, well I don't know. Maybe in other countries, but certainly not here. Go search for some dart DVD's to buy. Not much out there, so I don't think they're making much money in that field. And "dart schools" and traveling appearances and trick shot exhibitions? Not likely.

Obviously the dart world is getting sponsorships from somewhere, but where? Who is throwing in extra money? What companies are supporting the tournaments and adding the big bucks? Is it the playing equipment sponsors? Could it be? Dart equipment is cheap. A good set of darts is $60-200, an expensive set might run you $250-500. A good steel tip board is $40-75. Of course the GOOD electronic or coin op boards are much more, $1500+. And I doubt if you'd EVER find a dart case that cost more than $40. And that's pretty much all you need for equipment. No fancy racks, amazing chalk, fingered or fingerless gloves, perfect balls and spotted-measled-whiteys. As I mentioned before, good luck finding any kind of dvd's to buy and I know there are a few books out there, but not many. Now consider how many people on this forum own their own tables and what they've paid for them. And then add in how much is spent on cues and cases and other paraphernalia. So my point is, pool equipment supplies are much more costly and I would assume the pool equipment companies are making as much if not more profit that dart equipment companies, so how could the dart supply companies pay out more to tournaments and sponsorshipts than pool supply companies?

although pool isn't on TV much, darts is virtually unseen on TVAnd man, I can see why! Gees, that's BORING. I played darts for a number of years and I can sit through hours of matches, but it will not draw the attention or keep the attention of non-darters. The announcers sure are fun though! Almost like soccer! They're trying to make it exciting! :grin-square:

Somebody mentioned that there are only 4 major pool tournaments in the US, how many major dart tournaments are there? Is there some sort of "tour"? Last I knew there were only two major tournaments, but they didn't pay much, it was more of a qualifier than anything, but it's been awhile since I've followed anything in the dart world. I know $10,000-$25,000-50,000 guaranteed tournaments were somewhat common. Maybe 20-30 a year throughout the country. Are there more now? Are there very many with payouts over $50,000?

The really big money darts is in Uk. The key is that people will watch it, not just at the venues but more importantly on tv where darts audiences, contrary to your perception of US tv, are in fact huge. People won't watch pool in big numbers, either at the venue or on tv. Big tv audiences mean that advertisers from outside the darts industry will take advertising slots at the venues, on the players shirts etc and during the tv show breaks, simple as that. Pool advertisers/sponsors are almost invariably from within the cuesports or gambling industries, with occasional alcohol industry input.

Darts is seen as a game played by ordinary working guys, albeit often big fat ones, in the pubs as a comfortably non-threatening social accompaniment to a night out or on the way home from a day's work.

Pool is widely perceived as being played by low life thieves, cheats, drug addicts, gamblers, the workshy and the the socially inadequate....don't shoot the messenger, that's the way it is......and that's another reason why most, possibly all, blue chip companies wouldn't have their brand image associated with pool if we gave it to them for free, let alone invest any money in the exercise.....NEVER going to happen.

Try listing playing pool in pool rooms as your favourite out of work pastime on your CV or application for any job which involves a degree of direct responsibility for large sums of money, especially cash or a great deal of faith in your honesty.....see how many interviews you get invited to, but don't hold your breath during the wait.......very frustrating and very disappointing a perception/attitude by the non pool playing public.......but let's not pretend it isn't the prevalent one :frown:

Re the other question......there are two large pro darts bodies/tours organised from Uk but I know next to nothing about US darts.
 
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frankncali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I dont think any major corporation really is interested in pool because the average person isnt interested in watching.
Take th dart tournament people are talking about. It will be on TV and this week alone I watched a dart tournament on ESPN. It was the semifinals and the placed was packed.
QUOTE]

I would say the place was packed full of previous competitors. At dart tournaments a lot of people will stick around and watch the final matches and cheer on their favorite. Even locally and for small tournaments I haven't seen that in pool very often. At state dart tournaments there were always crowds watching the finals. SH*T! pool tournaments? Not much, maybe a handful of friends and teammates. Has anybody else noticed the difference in that? Maybe it's different for larger pool tournaments? Do you guys stick around and watch the final if you've lost out of the tournament? Even if it isn't your buddy or teammate?


That was my thoughts as well. In pool the best players never stick around for the finals. The cold hard truth is that pool, even at a high level, is very boring to watch. The sets are long so there is little drama until the end. I guess it might even be considered more boring if the pool is played well. While I can appreciate good play it still doesnt excite me until there are shots that matter.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...Darts and every other game offer a chance for two people to go head to head and play an exciting match. In pool we can watch one player boringly beat another player that never gets a chance.
Pool needs to figure out a way to make it more exciting shot for shot. It ...


I thought Total Offense Pool was a great idea...didn't really catch on though.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
There is more money work at Wal Mart Pushing Crts than there is in Pool plus they have a 401k's Plan, and other Bennies.
 

RenoRex

High Desert Dweller
Silver Member
Now this sounds reasonable ...

Tom,

I hate to sound negative, but we don't even have a product to sell to ourselves...
The men and women professionals, outside the top 10 (and that is really stretching it IMO), cannot support a family on the yearly earnings from tournaments.

There are only 4 major tournaments in the USA for Men and only 6 stops for the Women's tour this year.

When these tournaments are supported by pool fans to 'standing room only' for the tournaments, then people with money will start to investigate.

Pool has to have, at the very least, a 'product' that is worth selling to its own fans before anyone else would be interested.

Thank You for your perspective on this subject.
 

axejunkie

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
In pool we can watch one player boringly beat another player that never gets a chance.
Pool needs to figure out a way to make it more exciting shot for shot. It needs something to hook the viewer and the major corporations. NONE of the games/formats we have now do that.

Good post, I agree.

As incredibly stupid and insulting as it may sound to any real player, I think a game like 'One Ball' would be a start:

Players try to make the one ball and get a point each time they make it. Call shot or safety and must call the pocket. Race can vary, say between 15 and 30 points depending on skill level. Alternate "break" and one ball is placed maybe halfway between the footspot and the bottom rail (or maybe someplace where it can't be cut directly into pocket), breaking player shoots from the behind the string, calls safety or calls pocket where ball must go. Play it on 3.5 - 4 in. pockets. Result of pocketing ball in wrong pocket could be spot shot for other player or loss of point. Players could have a maximum number of shots or safeties to use up (per match and/or per game), after that they lose the points to other player.

Yeah it's insanely simple, but you would see shotmaking and tough safeties and the strategy is so simple the non-pool public would be able to follow easily.
 

center pocket

Got Heart?
Silver Member
I honestly think we need an ESPN 8 The Ocho channel for sports like pool and billiards, snooker, bowling, lacrosse, darts, curling, ect. And espn can stick to the big five football, baseball, hockey, golf, basketball. And it needs a set schedule. Cant have it changing all the time except on special occasions.

I honestly believe that nine ball is getting boring to the public. I think if the banks tournie at DCC was televised at least once, it would spike some interest. The average joe that walks in a pool usually has no concept of banking, so the general public's interest might rise.

Another point, at pro tournies 30 years ago I was told that the audience would be entertained be the pros putting on exebitions instead of just warming up. I think the all the pros need a lesson in showmanship. If this practice was picked up again, then the audience interest might rise as well.

People want to be intrigued when they watch pros play. I don't think the audience has seen anything new in awhile in the sport of pro pool.
 

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
Hmm, not sure if I believe that "darts pays more than pool". I think pool is more diversified and the money is spread out more. I would bet there are very, very few dart players that make very much money. Or even enough to to get them from one tournament to the next. And as far as endorsements, well I don't know. Maybe in other countries, but certainly not here. Go search for some dart DVD's to buy. Not much out there, so I don't think they're making much money in that field. And "dart schools" and traveling appearances and trick shot exhibitions? Not likely.

Obviously the dart world is getting sponsorships from somewhere, but where? Who is throwing in extra money? What companies are supporting the tournaments and adding the big bucks? Is it the playing equipment sponsors? Could it be? Dart equipment is cheap. A good set of darts is $60-200, an expensive set might run you $250-500. A good steel tip board is $40-75. Of course the GOOD electronic or coin op boards are much more, $1500+. And I doubt if you'd EVER find a dart case that cost more than $40. And that's pretty much all you need for equipment. No fancy racks, amazing chalk, fingered or fingerless gloves, perfect balls and spotted-measled-whiteys. As I mentioned before, good luck finding any kind of dvd's to buy and I know there are a few books out there, but not many. Now consider how many people on this forum own their own tables and what they've paid for them. And then add in how much is spent on cues and cases and other paraphernalia. So my point is, pool equipment supplies are much more costly and I would assume the pool equipment companies are making as much if not more profit that dart equipment companies, so how could the dart supply companies pay out more to tournaments and sponsorshipts than pool supply companies?

And although pool isn't on TV much, darts is virtually unseen on TV. And man, I can see why! Gees, that's BORING. I played darts for a number of years and I can sit through hours of matches, but it will not draw the attention or keep the attention of non-darters. The announcers sure are fun though! Almost like soccer! They're trying to make it exciting! :grin-square:

Somebody mentioned that there are only 4 major pool tournaments in the US, how many major dart tournaments are there? Is there some sort of "tour"? Last I knew there were only two major tournaments, but they didn't pay much, it was more of a qualifier than anything, but it's been awhile since I've followed anything in the dart world. I know $10,000-$25,000-50,000 guaranteed tournaments were somewhat common. Maybe 20-30 a year throughout the country. Are there more now? Are there very many with payouts over $50,000?

Apparently you did not bother to check into the link provided in post #4 in this thread. The answers to some of your questions are at that site, and at linked sites such as http://www.pdc.tv/.

Some very basic investigation will show that there is a major tournament held in the US, the Las Vegas Dessert Classis. The prize pool has been in the $250,000 range in the past.

Dave
 
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