Mosconi Affidavit and Notes

[Jeff]

Two interesting pieces of billiard history

The first is an affidavit attesting to Mosconi's record straight pool run and the second is is an image of the notes he kept folded, in his wallet during the filming of the Movie "The Hustler".

http://americanhistory.si.edu/archives/d9744.htm

 

[arsenius]

That is really, really cool.

No wonder he made it to 526. The Easy High Billiard club? From the sounds of it I could run a hundred there myself without effort! ;-) j/k!

Thanks Jeff!

 

[jay helfert]

That is really, really cool.

No wonder he made it to 526. The Easy High Billiard club? From the sounds of it I could run a hundred there myself without effort! ;-) j/k!

Thanks Jeff!

No you couldn't! I grew up in Dayton, Ohio which was about 30 miles from Springfield. I visited East High Billiards in the 60's when my friend Russ Maddox owned it. The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era.

I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing.

 

[DeepBanks]

The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era.

I've got the same table at my house . . . I'd say circa 1960 . . . it's a great table . . . Mine looks alot like the pic attached except no ball box.

I just can't imagine someone running 500++ on one of these . . . Willie was a great player and a true legend of the game.

 

[Jeff]

. . . Willie was a great player and a true legend of the game.

No doubt about that.

 

[jay helfert]

I've got the same table at my house . . . I'd say circa 1960 . . . it's a great table . . . Mine looks alot like the pic attached except no ball box.

I just can't imagine someone running 500++ on one of these . . . Willie was a great player and a true legend of the game.

This is JAM UP table. I know! I had one and made the mistake of selling it. Once they are set up correctly they play super!

 

[Williebetmore]

I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing.

Jay,
I've heard the same thing in a speech that Irving Crane gave at a dinner I attended.

You know what would be super-cool....get two of those tables set up to specification at Bob Jewett's DCC straight pool challenge, and let the heavyweights fire at the record. I would bet a large sum that there would be more spectator interest, and a large sum that no one breaks the record (of course I would get thrown out of the venue for aggressively sharking anyone who made it near 500).

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,
I've heard the same thing in a speech that Irving Crane gave at a dinner I attended.

You know what would be super-cool....get two of those tables set up to specification at Bob Jewett's DCC straight pool challenge, and let the heavyweights fire at the record. I would bet a large sum that there would be more spectator interest, and a large sum that no one breaks the record (of course I would get thrown out of the venue for aggressively sharking anyone who made it near 500).

Let me tell you something Willie my friend. You wouldn't have to worry. It wouldn't happen if they all played on these tables night and day for nine days. And I'd bet the mint on that. Position play was not as easy on these smaller boxes and you could get tied up quick. The cloth was slow and you (and Wiilie M.) needed a strong, yet delicate and accurate stroke to maneuver the cue ball around.

Only Efren among today's players has the same kind of capabilities that Mosconi had in controlling "whitey". Dennis may have that ability some day but he is not going to focus on 14.1.

 

[pdcue]

Let me tell you something Willie my friend. You wouldn't have to worry. It wouldn't happen if they all played on these tables night and day for nine days. And I'd bet the mint on that. Position play was not as easy on these smaller boxes and you could get tied up quick. The cloth was slow and you (and Wiilie M.) needed a strong, yet delicate and accurate stroke to maneuver the cue ball around.

Only Efren among today's players has the same kind of capabilities that Mosconi had in controlling "whitey". Dennis may have that ability some day but he is not going to focus on 14.1.

Jay,

East High was closed before I got to Springfield, But there was a room
in Dayton, EastTown Billiards<too manny easts in this story>on Linden Ave
that had one table just like you described. They might have opened
after you left Dayton. (1973-ish?)

Between the small-ish pocket openings and the deep shelf<undercut>
of the slate, if a ball hit anything but air, it would jar and just smirk at you.

All this obcessing over tight/loose pockets is only because players
today never saw Willie run balls.
His control was so precise that, other than break shots,
90% of the shots he made couldn't be missed by a C player.

Dale

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

East High was closed before I got to Springfield, But there was a room
in Dayton, EastTown Billiards<too manny easts in this story>on Linden Ave
that had one table just like you described. They might have opened
after you left Dayton. (1973-ish?)

Between the small-ish pocket openings and the deep shelf<undercut>
of the slate, if a ball hit anything but air, it would jar and just smirk at you.

All this obcessing over tight/loose pockets is only because players
today never saw Willie run balls.
His control was so precise that, other than break shots,
90% of the shots he made couldn't be missed by a C player.

Dale

Great story Dale. Once after a Mosconi exhibition and a run of well over a hundred balls, someone in attendance was heard to say, "He isn't that good, he never had to make a hard shot".
That's how good Willie's position play was. The person who said it didn't realize how skilled he was.

 

[Cornerman]

No you couldn't! I grew up in Dayton, Ohio which was about 30 miles from Springfield. I visited East High Billiards in the 60's when my friend Russ Maddox owned it. The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era.

I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing.

I wanted to resurrect this post since I missed it the first time. Jay’s post more than suggests that Mosconi in 1954 would have played on these same tables, assuming Easy High didnt tighten the pockets afterwards. The table should be listed and reported as Oversized 8 instead of a misleading 4’x8’. What about the pocket size? For years it’s been listed as 5 1/4”. But this post suggests they were 4 5/8” (explictly for the 60’s, so I’m inferring that in 1954, it would have been the same).

I think I want to hear more from people who know this table and specs (including Glen) as well as the pool hall at the time (including Jay of course).

Freddie <~~~ surprised