Mosconi Break

I'm glad to see the new breaking rules, except for breaking from the box and the stuping sound on the 10 sec mark on the shot clock.

As reguards the 3x balls past the headstring is a rule that I like, because the soft break is ruining 9ball, if players want to use the soft break, then play snooker, one pocket or straight pool and leave 9ball to guys that are willing to hit the rack with a bit of authority ffs.

Any player that can't hit the rack hard enough to make 3 balls pass the headstring, deserve to have a foul called on them, because the soft break just ain't pool, it's complete BS.

Willie
 
av84fun said:
The soft break would be like changing football rules so that gaining ANY yardage on 3 consecutive plays would be a first down...and it would ruin football just as surely as the soft break would ruin pro billiards...what is left of it anyway...in America.
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I have yet to see an analogy between a mainstream sport and pool actually make sense.

And this is no exception.
 
bruceree said:
I have yet to see an analogy between a mainstream sport and pool actually make sense.

And this is no exception.
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Sorry you didn't like it but the point you seem to be MISSING is the REASON(S) pool is not a mainstream sport.

It makes no difference, what "stream" a sport is in. What makes a difference is whether the general public would be excited enough to spend their time watching it and obviously, that is not the case with pool and hasn't been for a long time.

But you don't care for mainstream sport analogies so, how about La Crosse. Clearly, not mainstream.

But La Crosse is THE most rapidly growing sport at the high school and college levels in the U.S.

The three days of the men's NCAA Division I tournament last year tallied a total of 125,000 fans in the home site of Philadelphia!

THREE DAYS and 125,000 fans which is...what...100 times total BCA fan attendance in Vegas??

Why? Because LaCrosse is EXCITING to watch. It's fast are spirited and the players LOOK and ACT excited. The fans yell and jump up and down and the players fist pump and appear to be having a hell of a good time.

But in pool everyone gets up in Earl's face when he acts out and breaks his cue...BUT IN TENNIS, JOHN MCENROE BECAME A NATIONAL HERO AND LEGEND FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS..,..AND WORSE!

And without him and Connors, the sport is in a MAJOR slump!

GET THE PICTURE?? (-:

What competitors in POPULAR sports don't do is mope around with stone faces that make you think their mothers had just died.

So the pureists can complain all they want about jump cues and hard break rules...and while they do so, they can also witness the continued decline of pro pool in the U.S. while they're at it.


I don't mean to be disrespectful...and I just get cranked up about this issue because I care a lot about this sport and it is WAY, WAY overdue for the pool community to REALIZE that if the pro side of the sport is going to survive in America, that we need to JUICE the sport up...BIG TIME. Maybe make it a TEAM sport (like Mosconi) with ONE central governing body...like the NBA/NFL/NHL etc. with Conferences and Playoffs and teams configured by a draft...with the Mosconi Cup becoming the Stanley Cup or the World Series.

Those structures are KNOWN to work and the pro pool structure is KNOWN not to work so the path is pretty simple to figure out.

Others could and certainly wood have more and better ideas than mine. There probably should be a blue ribbon committee formed for the purpose of figuring out how to revive this great sport of ours...so my main points are:

A. The status quo ain't working and
B. Little is being done about A.

Regards,
Jim
 
Johnnyt said:
They changed too many things at once. Break from box, 9 on spot, and 3 balls need to go all the way back past the head-string
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Exactly. It works at Eurotours like Buckster mentioned, but there the rack is tapped at it's common place, which means a wing ball hits the corner pocket every time. Here the rack is up, and the only ball they seem to pocket consistently is the 1 in the side. Which they were trying to do multiple times using a cut break. Which didn't work.
I'm surprised it was reported the teams worked on the break pretty long before the start, and then it seemed only Archer did break the balls properly.
The promoters should have tried several decisions with both teams' representatives and see which works best. Enforcing all three rules at once is disastrous.

The buzzer starts counting only 5 seconds before time runs out IMO. And it's pretty annoying. They should have tried to make it sound gentle for players, it is not so important to inform the TV viewers (like it does now) since they watch the time ticker on the screen anyway.
 
Johnnyt said:
That loud ass dong when the shot clock has 10 sec. left has to go. That would screw-up almost anyone up just as they were going to stroke the ball. Johnnyt
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I agree. They should change it to the sound of a cock crowing...
 
av84fun said:
bruceree said:
I have yet to see an analogy between a mainstream sport and pool actually make sense.

And this is no exception.
Click to expand...
Sorry you didn't like it but the point you seem to be MISSING is the REASON(S) pool is not a mainstream sport.
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Comparing the rules for 9 ball and football doesn't work because it's a poor comparison. It has nothing to do with the popularity of the sport and does not help prove your point.


av84fun said:
It makes no difference, what "stream" a sport is in. What makes a difference is whether the general public would be excited enough to spend their time watching it and obviously, that is not the case with pool and hasn't been for a long time.
...
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Pool's not popular because it's not as fun to watch as other activities. This has nothing to do with the soft break or the faces players are making when they shoot. Really.

At least you were half correct.
 
getting rid of a shot clock would help tv ratings because any extra time spent lining up shots, looking for position or whatever get edited out anyways and often times the little bit of extra time leads to more exciting and brave offensive shots which often work out. That is exactly what pools needs, more exciting shot making. I have seen this first hand at the Carolina Women's Billiards Classic in NC last year in Feb.

Ben
 
I saw at least 6 shots missed on day one because of that loud bonging shot clock. Johnnyt missed two that way. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I saw at least 6 shots missed on day one because of that loud bonging shot clock. Johnnyt missed two that way. Johnnyt
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Johnnyt is playing in the Mosconi Cup? What team are you on!?
 
lacquer said:
Comparing the rules for 9 ball and football doesn't work because it's a poor comparison. It has nothing to do with the popularity of the sport and does not help prove your point.




Pool's not popular because it's not as fun to watch as other activities. This has nothing to do with the soft break or the faces players are making when they shoot. Really.

At least you were half correct.
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First, welcome as a poster to the forum.


Comparing the rules for 9 ball and football doesn't work because it's a poor comparison. It has nothing to do with the popularity of the sport and does not help prove your point.
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I respect your opinion but, of course, disagree. In virtually every sport, there have been rules changes, many of which are specifically designed to make the games more appealing to fans. In baseball, for example, at least in the American Leauge, the designated hitter rule was adopted. They did so because wathing pitcher flail away at pitches that they miss by two feet was not exciting...it was funny...but not exciting.

The American league introduced that rule for no other reason than to please the fans. I don't want to debate that rule because that is not the point. The point is the rule was adopted for no other reason than to obtain fan appreciation.

Another baseball example is the lively baseball and the hollowing out of the end of the bat...both of which served the purpose making home runs easier to hit..or at least to keep the playing field level for batters since pitcher's speed and "action" has increased steadily

So, the anaology was perfectly apt. It was not specific to any one sport but rather to the CONCEPT that no sport can endure if it does not excite its fans and that therefore, rule changes should and MUST be oriented to that objective.

It is not a matter of opinion but rather of observable fact, that jump shots excite the crowd. One of the BCA commentators stated EXACTLY that when Mike Davis drilled a long jump shot against SVB.


And when Alex made SIX balls on the break a couple of years ago at the tournament held at Grand Central Station, the crowd (and Alex) went NUTS and STAYED nuts for about five minutes! (too bad he didn't get out with 3 left though!) (-:


Pool's not popular because it's not as fun to watch as other activities. This has nothing to do with the soft break or the faces players are making when they shoot. Really.
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As noted above, it has everything to do with rules of the game that make it less exciting to watch. I never suggested the absurdity that pool will ever be as popular as the "major" sports...but that is no reason not to attempt to make it more popular than it is.

Regards,
Jim
 
railfirst said:
getting rid of a shot clock would help tv ratings because any extra time spent lining up shots, looking for position or whatever get edited out anyways and often times the little bit of extra time leads to more exciting and brave offensive shots which often work out. That is exactly what pools needs, more exciting shot making. I have seen this first hand at the Carolina Women's Billiards Classic in NC last year in Feb.

Ben
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I agree with you Ben. But the shot clock is there primarily because the production crew gets paid by the hour and since there is relatively little profit in the difference between production costs and ad sales, there is an imparitive to keep the total elapsed time of the events as low as possible.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
...
As noted above, it has everything to do with rules of the game that make it less exciting to watch. I never suggested the absurdity that pool will ever be as popular as the "major" sports...but that is no reason not to attempt to make it more popular than it is.
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The MLBA changes are far more suited for comparison to the Mosconi break (etc.) rules being imposed. Just like you said, that is an apt comparison.

Tournaments have tried with all sorts of different formats that appeal to players and viewers both. When one of these changes really turns it around for pool I will be shocked.

Sure, John Doe might not flip back to a CSI rerun until after he gets to see the break, but there's no appeal in watching a full rack unless you really understand the game. The action that they're pushing with breaks, jumps and shotclocks is really not going to change the game from the general viewer's perspective.

Please don't get me wrong. What they're trying to do is great, but I really doubt that it's going to impact the number of viewers. In all honesty, I don't care so long as they're not destructing the game in the process. I'll still play and watch regardless.
 
lacquer said:
The MLBA changes are far more suited for comparison to the Mosconi break (etc.) rules being imposed. Just like you said, that is an apt comparison.

Tournaments have tried with all sorts of different formats that appeal to players and viewers both. When one of these changes really turns it around for pool I will be shocked.

Sure, John Doe might not flip back to a CSI rerun until after he gets to see the break, but there's no appeal in watching a full rack unless you really understand the game. The action that they're pushing with breaks, jumps and shotclocks is really not going to change the game from the general viewer's perspective.

Please don't get me wrong. What they're trying to do is great, but I really doubt that it's going to impact the number of viewers. In all honesty, I don't care so long as they're not destructing the game in the process. I'll still play and watch regardless.
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Thanks for your views. And I agree that "viewer oriented" rules changes will not cause a revolutionary uptick in viewership. But that doesn't suggest that the sport shouldn't TRY to make itself more popular.

You say that you will keep watching...and so will I but the fact of the matter that there is not enough viewship to create a TOUR with a sufficient number of stops and prize money that allows more than just a few players to make a living.

Personally. I wish that was not the case and I wish that there was more proactive thinking that would lead to a pick up in viewership.

It is true that some pro tournaments get significantly more viewers than the typical ESPN...TAPED sporting events...and that's cool but the fact that the events are taped for later broadcast and not picked up live relegates ALL such events to little more than "time fillers."

Here are the numbers for the BCA...

"Viewer ratings have ranged from a .29 average rating (253,469 households) for the debut of all four rounds, to a peak of .64 (586,540) for a single showing of the women's final. "

http://bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=20

The good news is that the ESPN benchmark rating is only .20 so in the context of TAPED sporting events, that tournament does fine...but wait...the other TAPED sporting events include bass fishing and lumberjacking etc. so we can't get too excited.

586,000 households is a TINY share of the viewing market especially when it is recognized that 40 MILLION Americans are said to play pool with some frequency. So..they PLAY it but they won't WATCH it and if they won't watch it the ad sales will be relatively low and if the ad revenues are low, the prize money will be low...and so it goes.

My only point is that the lovers of this sport and those who control the tournaments need to take every step they can imagine to make the sport more exciting to watch and such things as whining about jump cues that the audience LOVE to see used is just flat bassakwards thinkiing.

Regards,
Jim
 
Both teams have struggled at times with the break rules. But remember, it is NOT a foul, only loss of turn, and the cue ball stays right where it stops. The penalty for failing to drive three balls past the head string is not that great!

The other team may not even have a shot on the one ball, and be forced to push or play safe. It has become a psychological factor more than anything else. Just one more thing to think about when breaking.
 
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