Mosconi Cup 2025, Dec. 3-6, Alexandra Palace, London

tend to agree here. Pros play 99.99% of their pool playing heads up tournament and/or gambling. Then once a yr the MC comes along and everyone just expects business as usual. Well folks team play is a one-off deal for them and a totally different mindset. So they don't play well, oh well. Too many panties get wadded up over this deal.
Other than the doules matches, this shouldn't make much of a difference.

They lose their singles matches, too.

FWIW, the whole thing is a circus event.

To make it truly entertaining they should only have ONE player on the USA team.

EARL!!!!!!!!!!

Let Earl play all of them at once.
 
I'm starting to like Shaw. He's a colossal jackoff but he knows it and just loves being the tool. Hard not to like a cat that knows exactly his spot.
Outside of pool he seems like a legit good dude (like many of them), but in this case: is you want him to shut up, you gotta shut him up.
No one in the US has that ability at Mosconi, certainly not Sky.
 
Somebody said this already maybe jbart but I think they need USA needs to shut up and take it seriously if they want to win. Let Europe do the shit talking at the press conferences etc. I think they’re too focused on “we need to thrive in this environment”. Just play real pool don’t play into the crowd. Europe is good enough to do that you’re not. If you want to win forget the press ops and be silent killers like you are in any other tournament. Way too much focus on building a team element when the best US players are all lone wolves. That being said, sky has no business being captain, Billy and Tyler have no business being in the event. Show me Oscar, show me some class
 
My takeaways today:
1. US just straight up doesn't have the talent depth, ESPECIALLY tactically. Euros could play keep away all day against us.
2. Fucking hell Filler is a murderer.
3. Shaw breathes this stuff. Egg him on at your own peril.
4. Moritz is the next Filler. He's the whole package. Scary good and he seems really well centered.
 
She's 15 and has improved tremendously in the last 2-3 yrs.

Fedor is indeed quite entrepreneurial, but do you think anyone >700 Fargo in the United States not named Shane (and maybe Tyler Styer) spends more time trying to improve their game than Fedor?
Not sure yet if others have piled on to skor, but while Savannah and Fedor both have very active online presences, I think it's nigh impossible to make an argument with a straight fact that either one doesn't work tremendously at their respective games. Savannah is becoming a real player, and is a threat to take down even some of the top women in the world. She's gone from "being pretty good for a 13-year-old girl" and at the level of a typical decent league player to one of the top few American-born women in the span of two years. Fedor is Fedor, just watch some of his practice sessions. I think someone just has a thing against self-promotion--which I agree with to some degree.
 
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Last note from me before the end of this ongoing massacre (unless something REALLY wild happens):
Everyone screaming about Bergman and Oscar and Lukas...they wouldn't hold up any better. The US simply DOES NOT HAVE the world class players Europe and Asia have.

There are loads of opinions on why, but I think we have a pool culture problem: Europeans and Asians are students of the game, they want to sharpen each other. That's not the case in the US. I'd consider myself an example of this: I play because I love the game, not for action or fame. It's nearly impossible in the US to play friendlies and do training sessions with better players to improve. Everyone just wants to play for money.
Everyone's trying to hide their speed instead of maximize it. Too many afraid of someone better. Take away the risk and egos and everyone makes everyone better.
 
As for 7ft vs 9ft and why Americans suck...

For the players currently playing in the MC, sure they all play plenty of time on the big tables. But as for why we have to drop down quite a bit after our top two players (and take a gift from team Europe to have a reasonable top-3), one has to look at the state of American pool, in general. Why aren't we developing more top players?

American pool has two big strikes against it: 1) most tables are in bars or environments not friendly to kids, and, 2) most tables are 7'. For point one, it means very, very few kids have access to tables during the developmental years that would allow the game to be second nature. Shane was one. But it's very, very hard to be internationally competitive if you pick up the game at 15/16. You have to start at like 6 or 8. And for many, they hardly play regularly until they can go to bars, so start even older.

For point two, you have a bunch of people who played rarely or sporadically during their childhood who are now developing their skills on 7' toy tables, learning to softly plink balls in, but never really having to develop a stroke. So that further stunts player development.

I'm not at all surprised that the US produces so few top players given the two above handicaps. Until and unless there's a more established pipeline where kids can learn and play and have fun from a very young age, and play on bigger tables to help develop all the skills of a good player, then the US will continue to underperform internationally. After Shane declines, the US might be a joke for a long time on the world stage.
 
Last note from me before the end of this ongoing massacre (unless something REALLY wild happens):
Everyone screaming about Bergman and Oscar and Lukas...they wouldn't hold up any better. The US simply DOES NOT HAVE the world class players Europe and Asia have.

There are loads of opinions on why, but I think we have a pool culture problem: Europeans and Asians are students of the game, they want to sharpen each other. That's not the case in the US. I'd consider myself an example of this: I play because I love the game, not for action or fame. It's nearly impossible in the US to play friendlies and do training sessions with better players to improve. Everyone just wants to play for money.
Everyone's trying to hide their speed instead of maximize it. Too many afraid of someone better. Take away the risk and egos and everyone makes everyone better.
I think you bring up a good point. There's still a negative culture around pool in the US, which I think holds it back, as well. The kids who have parents pushing their interests and skills are pushing kids to learn piano, and/or soccer, etc. It's largely the kids who don't have the parental support who are going into pool. And that cycle reinforces itself. Who wants to have their kid play a seedy game in seedy establishments against questionable people?

One advantage that international countries have is they don't have to overcome a cultural history of having the game be seen as, to be blunt, low-class.
 
Just seems weird to interject into a conversation on a specific topic where a bunch of people obviously care and are giving their opinions and be like “my contribution is that I don’t care”. Like uh, cool, thanks man. What’s your point here? Go hit some balls or something
I am soothing the nerves for the people who have their panties in a bunch because they are worried about a game that they aren't even in.

Relax.

Drink a beer or something.

It is a GAME and YOU are on the couch somewhere.

Don't get so shook up.
 
After reading some of the above posts I am more and more convinced that those Pocket Reducers are one of, it not the best, training aids out there.

Early on I used to practice with pool balls on a 10' snooker table. After a couple of hours of that the pockets on the pool table looked like buckets. I was known as a shotmaker by many players in my era. That was a compliment I got quite often. Unfortunately my position play and cue ball control were not as good. C'est la vie.

No reason that some of todays players couldn't do the same thing to improve their shooting eye.
 
My takeaways today:
1. US just straight up doesn't have the talent depth, ESPECIALLY tactically. Euros could play keep away all day against us.
2. Fucking hell Filler is a murderer.
3. Shaw breathes this stuff. Egg him on at your own peril.
4. Moritz is the next Filler. He's the whole package. Scary good and he seems really well centered.
Agree! Moritz plays as good or better than anyone out there on either side. I happen to like Shaw. He talks a lot of shit but he backs it up with strong play. Kind of like Muhammed Ali used to do once upon a time. If you can do it then it isn't bragging. One last note, Filler kills! He takes no prisoners.
 
Early on I used to practice with pool balls on a 10' snooker table. After a couple of hours of that the pockets on the pool table looked like buckets. I was known as a shotmaker by many players in my era. That was a compliment I got quite often. Unfortunately my position play and cue ball control were not as good. C'est la vie.

No reason that some of todays players couldn't do the same thing to improve their shooting eye.
Everybody on the USA team has the skill and knowledge to win some of these matches, but they can never get their heads into it.

They don't take it as seriously as the teams from Europe do.

They don't mind losing.

They treat it as a "game", which it IS.

The Mosconi Cup is nothing more than a higher level of an end-of-year APA tournament.
 
Last note from me before the end of this ongoing massacre (unless something REALLY wild happens):
Everyone screaming about Bergman and Oscar and Lukas...they wouldn't hold up any better. The US simply DOES NOT HAVE the world class players Europe and Asia have.

There are loads of opinions on why, but I think we have a pool culture problem: Europeans and Asians are students of the game, they want to sharpen each other. That's not the case in the US. I'd consider myself an example of this: I play because I love the game, not for action or fame. It's nearly impossible in the US to play friendlies and do training sessions with better players to improve. Everyone just wants to play for money.
Everyone's trying to hide their speed instead of maximize it. Too many afraid of someone better. Take away the risk and egos and everyone makes everyone better.
In the Philippines everyone plays everyone else! No one ducks anyone. They may ask for (and get) games on the wire, but they get up there and play. The good players here do not sit around the poolroom drinking, smoking and having fun. They're there for business, which is pool, pool and more pool.
 
As for 7ft vs 9ft and why Americans suck...

For the players currently playing in the MC, sure they all play plenty of time on the big tables. But as for why we have to drop down quite a bit after our top two players (and take a gift from team Europe to have a reasonable top-3), one has to look at the state of American pool, in general. Why aren't we developing more top players?

American pool has two big strikes against it: 1) most tables are in bars or environments not friendly to kids, and, 2) most tables are 7'. For point one, it means very, very few kids have access to tables during the developmental years that would allow the game to be second nature. Shane was one. But it's very, very hard to be internationally competitive if you pick up the game at 15/16. You have to start at like 6 or 8. And for many, they hardly play regularly until they can go to bars, so start even older.

For point two, you have a bunch of people who played rarely or sporadically during their childhood who are now developing their skills on 7' toy tables, learning to softly plink balls in, but never really having to develop a stroke. So that further stunts player development.

I'm not at all surprised that the US produces so few top players given the two above handicaps. Until and unless there's a more established pipeline where kids can learn and play and have fun from a very young age, and play on bigger tables to help develop all the skills of a good player, then the US will continue to underperform internationally. After Shane declines, the US might be a joke for a long time on the world stage.
In my day, 60's and 70's, there were literally thousands of poolrooms all across the country. Every small town had a billiard room, or two. And they were all 8' or 9' tables. Bar tables were exclusively in the bars and for adults over 21. You grew up playing on a full sized table!
 
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