Mosconi Cup table playing easy
- Thread starter hang-the-9
- Start date
I don't think all the people whining about the tables playing easy know much about brand new cloth and tables. I'm not a master mechanic like the Cobra but I have recovered about 50 tables, and played on most of them right after the recover process was over.
1. Slide. Balls will slide forever on the new cloth and will not bend off their path. The rails will bank very long because of this. Balls traveling along the rails at a shallow angle will drop because of this, even if you hit high up on the rail.
2. Rail cloth not "played in". On some tournaments in the past they used Simonis 760 for the rails and 860 for the bed to combat this effect. I have no experience with this, but apparently someone thought it was enough of a problem to try to solve it this way.
3. Rail rubbers soft from heat. TV lighting heats the rubber and softens it, making it bank long.
4. Rail bed heated from lighting. Even though the air might be humid in the room the heat makes moisture evaporate from the playing surface, speeding up the table.
5. Brand new pocket facings. After long use pocket facings have a tendency to become "misshapen". Hack mechanics are often to lazy to replace them, thus many people play on pockets that do not play right, without them realizing it. Also the tv lights will heat them like the rail rubber.
In conclusion I was not shocked or even surprised by the softness of the tables. In fact I am glad that the table was on the easy side of normal, rather than the opposite.
From many of the replies and previous posts on this topic I suspect that many people on this forum are playing in swampy hxxl hole pool rooms, with worn out cloth and beat to sxxt pocket facings. Reading tales about the biggest poolrooms in the US being to cheap to turn on the aircondition in African jungle weather conditions only strengthen this impression. I give you respect for playing well under those conditions, but they are not, nor should they be, considered to be normal.
I have a different table philosophy than most on here. My main concern is that tables are not supposed to rob you. If you shoot a long draw shot along the rail, the ball should drop as long as the shot is hit with a reasonable speed and inside the points of the pocket withouth touching the rail. If your table rejects shots like this, IMHO it's crap.
Also, I wish that this match was still up on Youtube, so you guys could see what really ridiculous conditions look like. It is a match between Alex Pagulayan and Santos Sambajon. The cloth was brand new "Championship" brand cloth, and it played just insanely fast. Balls were sliding everywhere and both players were struggling. Only this break by Alex is still up. He made 6 balls and couldn't get out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDhrDhliX3k
1. Slide. Balls will slide forever on the new cloth and will not bend off their path. The rails will bank very long because of this. Balls traveling along the rails at a shallow angle will drop because of this, even if you hit high up on the rail.
2. Rail cloth not "played in". On some tournaments in the past they used Simonis 760 for the rails and 860 for the bed to combat this effect. I have no experience with this, but apparently someone thought it was enough of a problem to try to solve it this way.
3. Rail rubbers soft from heat. TV lighting heats the rubber and softens it, making it bank long.
4. Rail bed heated from lighting. Even though the air might be humid in the room the heat makes moisture evaporate from the playing surface, speeding up the table.
5. Brand new pocket facings. After long use pocket facings have a tendency to become "misshapen". Hack mechanics are often to lazy to replace them, thus many people play on pockets that do not play right, without them realizing it. Also the tv lights will heat them like the rail rubber.
In conclusion I was not shocked or even surprised by the softness of the tables. In fact I am glad that the table was on the easy side of normal, rather than the opposite.
From many of the replies and previous posts on this topic I suspect that many people on this forum are playing in swampy hxxl hole pool rooms, with worn out cloth and beat to sxxt pocket facings. Reading tales about the biggest poolrooms in the US being to cheap to turn on the aircondition in African jungle weather conditions only strengthen this impression. I give you respect for playing well under those conditions, but they are not, nor should they be, considered to be normal.
I have a different table philosophy than most on here. My main concern is that tables are not supposed to rob you. If you shoot a long draw shot along the rail, the ball should drop as long as the shot is hit with a reasonable speed and inside the points of the pocket withouth touching the rail. If your table rejects shots like this, IMHO it's crap.
Also, I wish that this match was still up on Youtube, so you guys could see what really ridiculous conditions look like. It is a match between Alex Pagulayan and Santos Sambajon. The cloth was brand new "Championship" brand cloth, and it played just insanely fast. Balls were sliding everywhere and both players were struggling. Only this break by Alex is still up. He made 6 balls and couldn't get out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDhrDhliX3k
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Wow, beautiful rebuttal. Lot's of facts cited and arguments made. I have never posted in NPR.
Here is the main shot in question...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsSv5-Fhmc#t=2441
That ball was hit very badly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsSv5-Fhmc#t=2441
That ball was hit very badly...
Yeah, that should never go.
On the whole I don't think the table has been too bad, but there have been a few shots now (to that corner actually - maybe coincidence) that have hit the rail very early and still gone.
Shallow angle, new cloth, soft hit....you really have no clue do you about how pool tables play!
Yeah me and multiple other players in this thread and others...
Pros should be held to a higher standard. They shouldnt be subject to gimmies like this where all you have to do is lag a ball in the general direction of the hole so it falls in.
Continue making pool tables easy for the world to play on. Noble work you are doing. Hell if I could be without my rails for 6 months, I'd have you work on mine just so I could play a ball better at home.
First of all, you don't know what you're talking about. Second, you don't have enough money to hire me in the first place
First of all, you don't know what you're talking about. Second, you don't have enough money to hire me in the first place
Pure class...
Lets not forget the balls !
My diamond played exactly like that for a while after is was new, Lets not forget about the balls. They are being kept real clean and they might be cleaning them with some silicone based products. Clean, slippery balls make even tighter and worn tables accept way more balls at pocket speed.
My diamond played exactly like that for a while after is was new, Lets not forget about the balls. They are being kept real clean and they might be cleaning them with some silicone based products. Clean, slippery balls make even tighter and worn tables accept way more balls at pocket speed.
I think we can all agree on one thing -- realkingcobra is a total douche. Hahaha.
I don't get it? There have been multiple misses allready. What do you want, that nobody can run out? The pressure, the noise, the cameras, the atmosphere everything is working to make the game harder. These are among the best players and some of them buckle under. On top of that you want them playing on gaffe tables that reject balls left and right? The tables play soft because they are new, with new cloth and heated by tv-lights. They will play tougher and tougher as they break in.
I never could understand this constant whining about the game being to easy for the pros. If you look at the money lists going 20 years back you will see many of the same names crop up over and over. Why is that exactly? If the conditions where so easy, why don't just anybody take home the win? Everyone claiming that they play under such difficult conditions and still outplay the pros should go to the US open or wherever and put their money where their mouths are.
edit to add: I am glad these people will not get their wish, that pros should play on ridiculous 3,75 inch corner pockets that are flared out, banging balls into rails over and over. Such a thrill it would be to see safety battles in every rack of nine ball, and seeing Niels, Shane and the others bang balls into rails like C-players. What a wonderful world that would be. And good for the sport too. The fans in Blackpool would really love to watch people struggle like a hopeless drunk at a pub. It would win the pros sooo much respect.
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I dont want them playing on equipment that balls are impossible to make on. I want them playing on equipment similar to what the average player plays on. I want them playing on equipment that will rattle a ball instead of take it in when hit bad.
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Great post. You get it. For the others who are whining, lets make them all play with beat up bar cues, and balls.
I wonder how much the perception would change if some of these people played on that table under these conditions?
I don't know RealKingCobra personally, but to think people come on here an argue with a guy who helped with the development of Diamond tables, and works with them every day is an embarrassment. Do you go to your heart surgeon and tell him how to do his job, and he doesn't know what he is talking about?
Dude, I dont want them to play on a piece of shit... I just want them to play on something that's similar to what people play regularly. Something that will rattle the balls that rattle at your local room.
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Class?? Well, maybe I'm just lost and don't know one damn' thing about pool tables, so my question to you, is how come YOU are not playing in this major event, because it sounds to me like you could spot every player that IS playing! Why don't you just stick to being a couch potato PRO, and leave the REAL Pro's alone to do what they do best. And when you learn more about what makes pool tables play the way they do, call me, because I'm a Professional billiard technician, as in I actually WORK on pool tables, I don't sit back and run my mouth complaining about something I know nothing about!
I've worked on well over 10,000 pool tables in my lifetime, with everyone of them playing like new, or better than new, so I'm a full blown expert on how a table plays when it's new, as I was also a player for many...many years before I ever started working on pool tables!!!
You have NO idea about sit when it comes to how a pool table should or shouldn't play, yet you comment as if YOU are an expert on this subject. If the damn' pool tables in your home room reject balls as easy as you proclaim, they're screwed up, but you wouldn't know that because you're only posing as an expert, what pool league do YOU play in!!!