Mosconiac Break Analysis for S.Dakota Kid

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I've seen some of your youtube break analysis for Charley Bryant and Larry Nevel and like them.

Have you done any analysis (slow motion) stuff on Shane's Ten Ball Break?

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
I was watching him yesterday. What stood out for me was how elegant and effortless his technique is. It's a very similar rhythm to a tennis serve.
 
Neil said:
Sorry, couldn't help but get a chuckle out of that one. Did you realize that Shane scratched on that break??
Click to expand...

It got kicked in.

What i have noticed about his breaking style is that when he pulls his arm back then starts to rise up and move forward with his hips. Is that the elbow doesn't stay still, like as if he tightens up his arm so both the elbow and arm are delivered. I know i probably aint making any sense here but maybe someone can help me out here or am i alone in this?
 
Last edited:
SVB break analysis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNyh2b739o

I was feeling punchy so I grabbed a tar DVD, extracted the footage, found the right 13 seconds with a good viewing angle, made a youtube account, and uploaded it. I wanted to do it in high quality and slow it down, plus add some captions. But it's 4 am and I'm feeling lazy.

Here's the text I put with it -
============================
This shows how Shane Van Boening (who is famous for his break) hits a hard 9 ball break. His hard break is one of the best in the world and is also one of his biggest advantages in 10 ball and 8 ball.

Parts of it may be worth copying for anyone looking to master the break. When shane breaks he hits them extremely hard and the cue ball bounces up in the air about a foot, and also backwards a bit. When it lands it pretty much stops, or it might dive forward a hair before stopping right in the center of the table. This is known as squatting the cue ball and all top pros hope to do it, but few do it as consistently as shane, especially considering how hard he hits 'em.

Here's what I notice about his break. You may not be able to copy shane's unique stroke and ability to hit accurately with such a long bridge. But you still can learn some useful stuff about followthrough, timing, etc.

· Closed bridge, doesn't bridge off the rail. Bridge hand has middle finger and the last two all squashed together and pushed far sideways under the loop. This is similar to the style you see with 3 cushion players. I think it lets you see the CB as clearly as possible.

· Warmup swings are quite rapid.

· Aims at the base of the ball, lower than he's actually going to hit.

· Pause at the final practice stroke, then he goes back deliberately and starts to stand up a bit. Elbow is fairly still at this point. Hips and forearm start to swing forward almost at the same time.

· The actual swing has his elbow tucking in a bit close to the body, and it looks like there's a little sidearm action as he goes forward, though by the time he finishes it's pretty textbook. Legs stay still, no kick.

· Stick extends about half a diamond shy of the center of the table. By the time he's finished, it looks like the joint of the stick passes through the loop.

Overall impression is that he is hitting it slow and powerfully rather than with a quick snap. It's very mechanical looking. He pauses, draws back, stands a little, snaps forward with little wasted movement, it's all whipping arm and a little lunging body.
 
CreeDo said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNyh2b739o

I was feeling punchy so I grabbed a tar DVD, extracted the footage, found the right 13 seconds with a good viewing angle, made a youtube account, and uploaded it. I wanted to do it in high quality and slow it down, plus add some captions. But it's 4 am and I'm feeling lazy.

Here's the text I put with it -
============================
This shows how Shane Van Boening (who is famous for his break) hits a hard 9 ball break. His hard break is one of the best in the world and is also one of his biggest advantages in 10 ball and 8 ball.

Parts of it may be worth copying for anyone looking to master the break. When shane breaks he hits them extremely hard and the cue ball bounces up in the air about a foot, and also backwards a bit. When it lands it pretty much stops, or it might dive forward a hair before stopping right in the center of the table. This is known as squatting the cue ball and all top pros hope to do it, but few do it as consistently as shane, especially considering how hard he hits 'em.

Here's what I notice about his break. You may not be able to copy shane's unique stroke and ability to hit accurately with such a long bridge. But you still can learn some useful stuff about followthrough, timing, etc.

· Closed bridge, doesn't bridge off the rail. Bridge hand has middle finger and the last two all squashed together and pushed far sideways under the loop. This is similar to the style you see with 3 cushion players. I think it lets you see the CB as clearly as possible.

· Warmup swings are quite rapid.

· Aims at the base of the ball, lower than he's actually going to hit.

· Pause at the final practice stroke, then he goes back deliberately and starts to stand up a bit. Elbow is fairly still at this point. Hips and forearm start to swing forward almost at the same time.

· The actual swing has his elbow tucking in a bit close to the body, and it looks like there's a little sidearm action as he goes forward, though by the time he finishes it's pretty textbook. Legs stay still, no kick.

· Stick extends about half a diamond shy of the center of the table. By the time he's finished, it looks like the joint of the stick passes through the loop.

Overall impression is that he is hitting it slow and powerfully rather than with a quick snap. It's very mechanical looking. He pauses, draws back, stands a little, snaps forward with little wasted movement, it's all whipping arm and a little lunging body.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the video. I like most everything that you observed except I can't say that he is lunging his body a little. I think the most I can call his forward body movement (just before the final forward stroke) is shifting his body forward. I watched the clip dozens of times in a row and I think his body movement simply gets him closer to the table and that movement extends his lever (stroking arm) and maybe both of those things give him a little more power.

He sure does make it look effortless. In this clip the cue ball doesn't hop as much as it normally does when he is breakng 10 ball.

Thanks again.

JoeyA
 
if this were a golf swing, you could call it a weight shift which creates dynamic tension. he fires the hips and uses the larger muscles in his legs, back and chest to pull the cue through the target...

the other poster who mentioned tennis serve is not far off either, think Pete Sampras. looks like he's hardly even trying, until the hit...

just my $.02,
justaguy
 
Someone needs to do an analysis of Shane actually obliterating a 10 ball rack. He is breaking at maybe 70% of his power in these videos imo. The race to 100 vs Alex would be a good DVD to use. They were both breaking very hard in that match.
 
If someone could post a vid with Shane dominating the frame (in other words, close up), I will do a full analysis of his break technique. I've just never found a good enough vid to do it...I am totally willing though as he holds some secrets!

The best I've done so far is posts#17&18 in this thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1481078

Thanks for the vid, Joey...it would be better if we could see SVB's chest though since we get better movement cues from that side. I may be forced to use this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

I agree with Luxuty too, high effort breaks are more telling. That's why I haven't used my own vids or the one posted above.
 
Fo everyone's reference, here are all of my break vids...

Break Analysis Vids on YouTube:
Morra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqjOVOUl1qw
Nevel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0quThyaBeg
Hillbilly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2b7D4DYwjI

Break (non-analysis) Vids on YouTube:
Kucharo#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDUfFDByvOM
Kucharo#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O21AsO3g9Ms
SVB#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA3JCQuEu-U
SVB#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zg4KMjgY0k
Archer#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTA2n-qkwY
Archer#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmWyiZ73ymg
Buste#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysrxi_w6_B4
Buste#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1lGmxqPNd8

Kucharo would be one to study...but sadly very little video remains of him. He lives near me, so...maybe...just maybe...I'll see him around & we'll be able to do something.
 
Secrets?

mosconiac said:
If someone could post a vid with Shane dominating the frame (in other words, close up), I will do a full analysis of his break technique. I've just never found a good enough vid to do it...I am totally willing though as he holds some secrets!

The best I've done so far is posts#17&18 in this thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1481078

Thanks for the vid, Joey...it would be better if we could see SVB's chest though since we get better movement cues from that side. I may be forced to use this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

I agree with Luxuty too, high effort breaks are more telling. That's why I haven't used my own vids or the one posted above.
Click to expand...

SECRETS? They've all got SECRETS! It's like pulling teeth to get it out of them. :D

I once heard Shane tell another professional pool player that he would tell him the secret to breaking for $300. The other player said, "How about a hundred?". Shane just smiled and shook his head no.

JoeyA
 
Neil said:
Sorry, couldn't help but get a chuckle out of that one. Did you realize that Shane scratched on that break??
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw the scratch.

Looks like he must have hit the "Breakrak" several hours to get that machine like repetition.

I find it funny that two of the best breakers (Mike Sigel and Shane) both break with the cue tip finishing on the table.

I read in Hal Mix's book that the "cue tip finishing on the table" was archaic.
 
JoeyA said:
SECRETS? They've all got SECRETS! It's like pulling teeth to get it out of them. :D

I once heard Shane tell another professional pool player that he would tell him the secret to breaking for $300. The other player said, "How about a hundred?". Shane just smiled and shook his head no.

JoeyA
Click to expand...

Is it just me, or is $300 a steal to learn secrets from one of the best breakers on the planet?
 
phenomenal

i remember seeing svb's break for the first time, studied it by video almost every day for about a month, and then combined it with about 10 days of practice sessions each lasting about two hours until my arms fell off, and i came to this conclusion. it's almost f***ing impossible. out of all the break shots i practised, i only managed to copy it successfully for about three to four racks in a row, and only twice in the 10 days. the timing is nutz to get the compression that he does with the shaft to do all the work. when executed, it doesn't feel like you're hitting it that hard at all, or hitting down on the ball that much. the compression that he gets is the key, the shaft reacting like a piece of flexing spring steel. i heard that svb had practiced his break every day for about a year (i think this was a quote by john schmidt, in a tar video). I think his break where the cue tip finishes high is easier to copy. i don't think the balls spread as well though. kudos to anyone with this much dedication to perfecting his game. i can't, i gotta work for a living due to a lack of natural talent.:o
 
thefonz said:
i remember seeing svb's break for the first time, studied it by video almost every day for about a month, and then combined it with about 10 days of practice sessions each lasting about two hours until my arms fell off, and i came to this conclusion. it's almost f***ing impossible. out of all the break shots i practised, i only managed to copy it successfully for about three to four racks in a row, and only twice in the 10 days. the timing is nutz to get the compression that he does with the shaft to do all the work. when executed, it doesn't feel like you're hitting it that hard at all, or hitting down on the ball that much. the compression that he gets is the key, the shaft reacting like a piece of flexing spring steel. i heard that svb had practiced his break every day for about a year (i think this was a quote by john schmidt, in a tar video). I think his break where the cue tip finishes high is easier to copy. i don't think the balls spread as well though. kudos to anyone with this much dedication to perfecting his game. i can't, i gotta work for a living due to a lack of natural talent.:o
Click to expand...
I like John Schmidts description of Shane's 10 ball break, he called it pure cancer:=)
 
accustatsfan said:
Does anyone know if he looks at the cue ball or object ball last?
Click to expand...

I'm curious too. I read somewhere on here about looking at the CB last and decided to give it a serious try... I think cuz chris bartram does it. It helped so much with my accuracy. I used to think squatting the CB was impossible near my break speed. Now it happens all the time. I still don't make a ball. Anyway I wonder if shane has to do this or if he's grooved his break into muscle memory and can just line up and fire.
 
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