Mosconi's slip stroke

lfigueroa said:
Maybe you didn't know what a slip stroke was back in the day, but I sure did. As teenagers, my buddies and I would fool around trying it out.

You also mention players and articles, but fail to cite any...

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E

Turn the volume up Lou or maybe your eyes are perfect and you need to see someone about dominant ear placement :groucho:....

On the vast majority of these shots you will hear his hand sliding on the linen even when you cannot see his arm... It's a distinct sound...

As far as Cites I don't need them if this video exists.... I couldn't tell you the number of articles and books read over the years much less recall which ones mentioned Mosconi's stroke....

His name was mentioned in conjunction with the term slip stroke when I was maybe 20 and I researched and adopted a modified version of it similar to what is on the video... part back swing, part slip....

That was 23 years ago.... So I might be able to find the proper books or magazines to cite but until then I'll just listen to the music that his slip stroke makes on the video......
 
The Renfro said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E

Turn the volume up Lou or maybe your eyes are perfect and you need to see someone about dominant ear placement :groucho:....

On the vast majority of these shots you will hear his hand sliding on the linen even when you cannot see his arm... It's a distinct sound...

As far as Cites I don't need them if this video exists.... I couldn't tell you the number of articles and books read over the years much less recall which ones mentioned Mosconi's stroke....

His name was mentioned in conjunction with the term slip stroke when I was maybe 20 and I researched and adopted a modified version of it similar to what is on the video... part back swing, part slip....

That was 23 years ago.... So I might be able to find the proper books or magazines to cite but until then I'll just listen to the music that his slip stroke makes on the video......
Click to expand...

I think that is his cue wrap sliding against his suit jacket on some shots I didn't hear it on most shots just some. I also have heard that same type sound when I've taken a few shots with someone else's cue when I had a jacket on, so I don't think that proves anything sorry.
 
itsfroze said:
I think that is his cue wrap sliding against his suit jacket on some shots I didn't hear it on most shots just some. I also have heard that same type sound when I've taken a few shots with someone else's cue when I had a jacket on, so I don't think that proves anything sorry.
Click to expand...

3:28 in the video... same as the rest... Pretty sure his suits weren't corduroy... Of course it really doesn't matter... He's dead and gone like straight pool... Not many slip strokes left in the current game... Like I said before it's possibly arguable either way... Some people just have to be right.... I usually just smile politely and let them be right... :rolleyes:

Only comment I have left is... Good speakers and sound cards are cheap....
 
The Renfro said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E

Turn the volume up Lou or maybe your eyes are perfect and you need to see someone about dominant ear placement :groucho:....

On the vast majority of these shots you will hear his hand sliding on the linen even when you cannot see his arm... It's a distinct sound...

As far as Cites I don't need them if this video exists.... I couldn't tell you the number of articles and books read over the years much less recall which ones mentioned Mosconi's stroke....

His name was mentioned in conjunction with the term slip stroke when I was maybe 20 and I researched and adopted a modified version of it similar to what is on the video... part back swing, part slip....

That was 23 years ago.... So I might be able to find the proper books or magazines to cite but until then I'll just listen to the music that his slip stroke makes on the video......
Click to expand...


The only problem with turning up the volume is that:

THE IMAGE ON SCREEN CLEARLY SHOWS HIM STARTING AND FINISHING WITH HIS GRIP HAND NEAR THE START OF THE WRAP ON HIS CUE. That's on about 20 of the 28 shots. On seven you can't tell. On *one shot* who knows.

So you want to know why the debate goes on? Because guys like you come to the table with specious arguments about a "sound" that was probably his arm brushing against his suit coat, and unspecified articles and opponents. I have a pretty good library that includes articles from the NYTimes going back to when Mosconi was in his prime. So if you have something in mind, let me know if I can help you out ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
The only problem with turning up the volume is that:

THE IMAGE ON SCREEN CLEARLY SHOWS HIM STARTING AND FINISHING WITH HIS GRIP HAND NEAR THE START OF THE WRAP ON HIS CUE. That's on about 20 of the 28 shots. On seven you can't tell. On *one shot* who knows.

So you want to know why the debate goes on? Because guys like you come to the table with specious arguments about a "sound" that was probably his arm brushing against his suit coat, and unspecified articles and opponents. I have a pretty good library that includes articles from the NYTimes going back to when Mosconi was in his prime. So if you have something in mind, let me know if I can help you out ;-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Lou you win.. He never had a slip stroke.... I'd prefer not to argue... You will just drag me down to your level and beat me with experience :rolleyes:

Better to go with the number 1 answer instead of the number 10 answer... Thank you Richard Dawson... Your legacy will live on forever.......

http://www.onelinerz.net/top-100-funny-one-liners/
 
What he was doing in that vid is not a really slip stroke.He was just adjusting his hand back so he could shoot.Corn bread Red ( Billy Burge) had a real slip stroke but I couldn't find a video of him playing.Gary Speath had a real slip stroke but it was only like a 1/4 to a half in long.IMO a real slip stroke is when on the final back stroke they "slip" their hand back a little and then shoot.I could be wrong but that's what the champions back in my day that I grew up playing with called a slip stroke.Joey Spaeth,Gary Spaeth,Billy Burge,Buddy Hall,Nick Varner and a bunch of players like that.I've used it before too.I just didn't see any good reason to keep using it.John B.
 
John Brumback said:
What he was doing in that vid is not a really slip stroke.He was just adjusting his hand back so he could shoot.Corn bread Red ( Billy Burge) had a real slip stroke but I couldn't find a video of him playing.Gary Speath had a real slip stroke but it was only like a 1/4 to a half in long.IMO a real slip stroke is when on the final back stroke they "slip" their hand back a little and then shoot.I could be wrong but that's what the champions back in my day that I grew up playing with called a slip stroke.Joey Spaeth,Gary Spaeth,Billy Burge,Buddy Hall,Nick Varner and a bunch of players like that.I've used it before too.I just didn't see any good reason to keep using it.John B.
Click to expand...

John I agree that it's not the true slip but a hybrid... He held the cue forward and then slid back during the back stroke so he could shoot...

I have been looking for a vid of a pure slip and not found anything on Cornbread..... I never saw him but I assume the tip was never pulled away from the cueball and all power was generated by sliding back on the cue stick and sort of punch stroking the ball? I do have a vid or 2 of Gary around here somewhere... Truthfully I was watching the banks and not the stroke =) Will HAVE to rewatch them now for sure... Thanks for the input....
 
The Renfro said:
Lou you win.. He never had a slip stroke.... I'd prefer not to argue... You will just drag me down to your level and beat me with experience :rolleyes:

Better to go with the number 1 answer instead of the number 10 answer... Thank you Richard Dawson... Your legacy will live on forever.......

http://www.onelinerz.net/top-100-funny-one-liners/
Click to expand...


It's not a question of winning or losing, it's a question of providing compelling evidence. If it's out there, I'd like to see -- I might even change my mind. Not that I would expect you to understand any of that. Now go back to your "Family Feud" reruns.

Lou Figueroa
 
The Renfro said:
John I agree that it's not the true slip but a hybrid... He held the cue forward and then slid back during the back stroke so he could shoot...

I have been looking for a vid of a pure slip and not found anything on Cornbread..... I never saw him but I assume the tip was never pulled away from the cueball and all power was generated by sliding back on the cue stick and sort of punch stroking the ball? I do have a vid or 2 of Gary around here somewhere... Truthfully I was watching the banks and not the stroke =) Will HAVE to rewatch them now for sure... Thanks for the input....
Click to expand...

Well,If you were to see Cornbread using it you wouldn't call it any kind of punch,It was smooth as silk.He would and they would take a few normal practice strokes then on the final stroke slip their hand back,then take a normal back stroke and shoot.It is a very smooth move with no jerking anywhere during the shot.

Most people could be standing right by Gary S. and probably not notice a slip stroke.His was very minute,but there none the less.I doubt you would be able to see his by watching on video.I can't think of or don't know any players that are still using a slip stroke.I take that back! Guys,I just thought of a good player that's using a slip stroke and I got to see it up close when he beat me in the banks this past year at the DCC.Ralf Soquet,( I'm sure I butchered his last name) He does use one on alot of his shots.I'm thinking it's only maybe half in or so but deff a slip stroke.He does it very good I might add and now he even plays good banks:p I still think it's going to be very hard to notice it by watching on video but someone might find a good clip of it.Hope someone can.His is a very smooth move also.John B.
 
John Brumback said:
Corn bread Red ( Billy Burge) had a real slip stroke but I couldn't find a video of him playing.Gary Speath had a real slip stroke but it was only like a 1/4 to a half in long.IMO a real slip stroke is when on the final back stroke they "slip" their hand back a little and then shoot.I could be wrong but that's what the champions back in my day that I grew up playing with called a slip stroke.
Click to expand...
I did a youtube search and was only able to find video clips of Cornbread playing Strawberry Brooks in one pocket:
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...2.2.0.0.0.0.129.213.1j1.2.0...0.0.VqmzQKmZRK0

In the first four video clips, you can't see Cornbread's slip stroke due to the camera angle.

In part 5, this video clip has the best camera angle so far of Cornbread's stroke:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReBKowfgIA
 
Last edited:
John Brumback said:
What he was doing in that vid is not a really slip stroke.He was just adjusting his hand back so he could shoot.Corn bread Red ( Billy Burge) had a real slip stroke but I couldn't find a video of him playing.Gary Speath had a real slip stroke but it was only like a 1/4 to a half in long.IMO a real slip stroke is when on the final back stroke they "slip" their hand back a little and then shoot.I could be wrong but that's what the champions back in my day that I grew up playing with called a slip stroke.Joey Spaeth,Gary Spaeth,Billy Burge,Buddy Hall,Nick Varner and a bunch of players like that.I've used it before too.I just didn't see any good reason to keep using it.John B.
Click to expand...


Not really huh, just adjusting, huh.

That was a slip stroke.

Plain and simple.
 
duckie said:
Not really huh, just adjusting, huh.

That was a slip stroke.

Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Duckie I really have to agree with John Brumback, he is just adjusting his hand.

I have an Accu-stats DVD of Cornbread playing Bugs in 1991 at the Legends of One Pocket Tournament I'll have to check it out and post
what I find.

Hope Cornbread isn't wearing a jacket! LOL
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I did a youtube search and was only able to find video clips of Cornbread playing Strawberry Brooks in one pocket:
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...2.2.0.0.0.0.129.213.1j1.2.0...0.0.VqmzQKmZRK0

In the first four video clips, you can't see Cornbread's slip stroke due to the camera angle.

In part 5, this video clip has the best camera angle so far of Cornbread's stroke:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReBKowfgIA
Click to expand...

Thanks,guess I didn't look good enough.Yes in part 5 of this video you can clearly see Red's slip stroke on the very first shot Red takes (In part 5).Watch his back hand and you will see what I call a slip stroke.It's a pretty big one too.His back hand slips back maybe 4 or 5 inches.Maybe there is more than one kind of slip stroke though but this is the kind that I grew up watching and hearing about.Sorry If I offended anyone about this.It's just mho and I've been wrong plenty of times before. John B.
 
I think someone else should apologize. I don't believe that you offended anybody in this thread.



JMHO



John Brumback said:
Thanks,guess I didn't look good enough.Yes in part 5 of this video you can clearly see Red's slip stroke on the very first shot Red takes (In part 5).Watch his back hand and you will see what I call a slip stroke.It's a pretty big one too.His back hand slips back maybe 4 or 5 inches.Maybe there is more than one kind of slip stroke though but this is the kind that I grew up watching and hearing about.Sorry If I offended anyone about this.It's just mho and I've been wrong plenty of times before. John B.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
slipstrokes

John Brumback said:
Thanks,guess I didn't look good enough.Yes in part 5 of this video you can clearly see Red's slip stroke on the very first shot Red takes (In part 5).Watch his back hand and you will see what I call a slip stroke.It's a pretty big one too.His back hand slips back maybe 4 or 5 inches.Maybe there is more than one kind of slip stroke though but this is the kind that I grew up watching and hearing about.Sorry If I offended anyone about this.It's just mho and I've been wrong plenty of times before. John B.
Click to expand...


John,

Trying to develop a slipstroke myself I have talked to a handful of people that have used it. One thing became obvious, while they all achieved a slip at the the start of their backstroke or starting at the beginning of their backstroke, there are subtle differences in how they achieve it.

Some of the other shots where we can't see Cornbread's grip hand but he is effortlessly achieving a foot or more of follow through are almost certainly slipstrokes also. That first one is huge as slipstrokes go and I missed it also. Very easy to miss a slipstroke and he executed it with his hand starting much further back on the grip than expected.

A favor if you don't mind: You mentioned that you used a slipstroke in the past. I'm sending a PM and would much appreciate it if you would take time to explain the exact mechanics of your release and regrip. I'm finding that different people did or do achieve the slip differently. Any help would be much appreciated!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
John,

Trying to develop a slipstroke myself I have talked to a handful of people that have used it. One thing became obvious, while they all achieved a slip at the the start of their backstroke or starting at the beginning of their backstroke, there are subtle differences in how they achieve it.

Some of the other shots where we can't see Cornbread's grip hand but he is effortlessly achieving a foot or more of follow through are almost certainly slipstrokes also. That first one is huge as slipstrokes go and I missed it also. Very easy to miss a slipstroke and he executed it with his hand starting much further back on the grip than expected.

A favor if you don't mind: You mentioned that you used a slipstroke in the past. I'm sending a PM and would much appreciate it if you would take time to explain the exact mechanics of your release and regrip. I'm finding that different people did or do achieve the slip differently. Any help would be much appreciated!

Hu
Click to expand...

Fire away:p, I'll try to.John B.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top