Mosconni Cup needs a major change to stay relevant.

SomeDeadGuy

SomeDeadGuy

Member
I love the Mosconni Cup but lets face it, the USA cannot compete enough to make it relevant I believe it will always be the case because Europe has twice the population as the USA and many countries' social safety nets provide much better long term financial security to pro's (and their families) who must dedicate their lives to the sport to be competitive. Not to mention those that actively sponsor youngsters. Golf's Ryder Cup is the format the Mosconni Cup is based on. Before 1979 competition was held between Great Britain and the USA only and it became snooze fest since the USA was so dominant. Led by Jack Nicholas, it was changed to include all of Europe and is now the most anticipated event next to Golf's majors. My recommendation is we include players from North and South America to help even out the field. I know many love to chant USA,USA,USA, but if we only win once every 5 or 10 years it’s going to die. Your thoughts?
 
It's not the population or funding. If it was China would be world dominate (though they do produce world class players). USA would now have a hard time against Poland, Germany, UK, Finland, Russia and maybe even Greece.

Here is your enemy. Eliminate this and all we be right in the world.
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Pool is growing, but, there are not sufficient Tour's in our country to support the Pro's. The Pro's in the USA follow the $$$. The There are not enough sponsors paying Pros enough to live off of and with out a Professional Tour, there is no "Sport" IMO, its just a game we play. NASCAR is a good example of how a deviant "racing game" turned into a serious $$$ Sport. The auto manufacturers support the sport in a unified way that allowed it to grow exponentially. Europe and China "get it" with Snooker and that is a serious sport as well. It will take time and investment to make our game into a popular sport. Legalized sports gambling might help. Illegal Gambling and the focus on it, brings our game no closer to being a sport. These are my opinions :)

TFT
 
Nick B said:
It's not the population or funding. If it was China would be world dominate (though they do produce world class players). USA would now have a hard time against Poland, Germany, UK, Finland, Russia and maybe even Greece.

Here is your enemy. Eliminate this and all we be right in the world.
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So on the years that the cup is on American soil we should use Valleys! Switching back to the 9fters for the odd years. Or maybe Jack Nicholas could be the coach. 😄
 
One solution might be to switch to last pocket eight ball. I've mentioned the game to a few European pros and not even one of them had even heard of it. Of course, that's a temporary fix, as within a couple of years the Europeans would be schooling us even at that game.

All kidding aside, however, the Mosconi remains an excellent event and the energy level surrounding remains very high, but for it to become more relevant, American pool has to become more relevant on the world stage. The solution lies in training and strong work ethic.
 
Mosconi Cup is growing at a wild pace right now in spite of European dominance. I get that Matchroom needs to consider the issue and make sure their brand doesn’t whither underneath them. As silly as it sounds to say, European dominance might not be a problem. If Matchroom continues to market the event and it keeps growing in interest, we might still be okay. At the same time changing the entire concept of the event has the potential to dilute US fan interest in the event and could lead us to the outcome we are looking to avoid. I’m the type of guy that doesn’t like moving the goalposts or lowering the rim in basketball. Maybe the secret is just keeping crowds rowdy and drunk. Either way, I’m more inclined to trust Matchroom than to conclude a specific change I have in mind is life or death for the event. Unless we are talking about purple 5 balls. 😂
 
MattPoland said:
Mosconi Cup is growing at a wild pace right now in spite of European dominance. I get that Matchroom needs to consider the issue and make sure their brand doesn’t whither underneath them. As silly as it sounds to say, European dominance might not be a problem. If Matchroom continues to market the event and it keeps growing in interest, we might still be okay. At the same time changing the entire concept of the event has the potential to dilute US fan interest in the event and could lead us to the outcome we are looking to avoid. I’m the type of guy that doesn’t like moving the goalposts or lowering the rim in basketball. Maybe the secret is just keeping crowds rowdy and drunk. Either way, I’m more inclined to trust Matchroom than to conclude a specific change I have in mind is life or death for the event. Unless we are talking about purple 5 balls. 😂
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Very well said!
 
I think the biggest problem with the United States teams is teamwork. The one thing Europeans do outstandingly well is play as a team, not individuals.

Maybe open it up to the rest of the world? Have several regional matches to get to the last two teams.
 
SomeDeadGuy said:
I love the Mosconni Cup but lets face it, the USA cannot compete enough to make it relevant I believe it will always be the case because Europe has twice the population as the USA and many countries' social safety nets provide much better long term financial security to pro's (and their families) who must dedicate their lives to the sport to be competitive. Not to mention those that actively sponsor youngsters. Golf's Ryder Cup is the format the Mosconni Cup is based on. Before 1979 competition was held between Great Britain and the USA only and it became snooze fest since the USA was so dominant. Led by Jack Nicholas, it was changed to include all of Europe and is now the most anticipated event next to Golf's majors. My recommendation is we include players from North and South America to help even out the field. I know many love to chant USA,USA,USA, but if we only win once every 5 or 10 years it’s going to die. Your thoughts?
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Isn't it 2 wins each the last four years?

Isn't the overall series tied, or only a one year separation?

Sure Europe went on a long run, but the US did before that.

Not sure how much closer you want it. The format (Short Races/alternate breaks) does a fine job of keeping it competitive.

Every year the same threads pop up about how much more dominant everyone is than the US. and how Europe could field 27 teams that would give our team the orange crush. It is a pool exhibition. Our boys will be fine.


Nick B said:
It's not the population or funding. If it was China would be world dominate (though they do produce world class players). USA would now have a hard time against Poland, Germany, UK, Finland, Russia and maybe even Greece.

Here is your enemy. Eliminate this and all we be right in the world.
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Click to expand...
Eliminate those and you stamp out the last hope of pool in this country.
 
buckshotshoey said:
I think the biggest problem with the United States teams is teamwork. The one thing Europeans do outstandingly well is play as a team, not individuals.

Maybe open it up to the rest of the world? Have several regional matches to get to the last two teams.
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The teamwork thing is a myth. It is in singles that the US has consistently played itself out of Mosconi contention over the last dozen or so Mosconi Cups. Not a lot of teamwork involved in singles. Actually, the record of the US is much better in team matches than in singles.

Last year, it seemed like the US was giving up 50 Fargo points on average per match. There's no amount of teamwork that will cover that spread.

This year, the US may well be up (Fargo in parentheses) against Filler (836), Gorst (827), Sanchez-Ruiz (825), Shaw (819) and Ouschan (821). On paper, this looks very one-sided, even if the five members of Team Europe all give each other the silent treatment.

As one who has attended many Mosconi Cups, I can't say I've seen more teamwork in one team than the other. On the other hand, the European fans exhibit a level of support and enthusiasm for the event that is otherworldly, even when the event is played in America.

Does home field matter for Team USA? For prestigious events having good prize money, I'd have to say no for 2022 year to date. At Derby City, Filler won the 10-ball, Sanchez-Ruiz won the 9-ball, and Gorst won bank pool and one pocket. At the Arizona Open, Gorst won. At the Wisconsin Open, Kazakis won. At the Las Vegas Open, Zielinski won. At the World 10-ball, Szewczyk won. At Super Billiards Expo, Shaw won. In 2022, there's little evidence that home cooking is worth anything to American players.

The US can win, but it won't be easy.
 
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How about run it like the Davis Cup in tennis? National pride and all that rather than communalism.
 
Format is fine.

If the USA is to be more competitive again, its the home turf that needs to improve.
A professional tour would be a step in the right direction.
Coupled with rooms around the country under sports grants, with WPA training of referees.
These rooms are kid friendly, so the juniors have a place to play and be coached.

How you get this recognised and treated like this, like other sports is a problem to solve.

Until then, Europe will keep marching onwards.
 
If the USA could win a few more lags it might change the outcome completely. In a short race it is a very important shot. Very often winning the lag is the difference between winning or losing a short race.
 
sjm said:
The teamwork thing is a myth. It is in singles that the US has consistently played itself out of Mosconi contention over the last dozen or so Mosconi Cups. Not a lot of teamwork involved in singles. Actually, the record of the US is much better in team matches than in singles.

Last year, it seemed like the US was giving up 50 Fargo points on average per match. There's no amount of teamwork that will cover that spread.

This year, the US may well be up (Fargo in parentheses), against Filler (836), Gorst (827), Sanchez-Ruiz (825), Shaw (819) and Ouschan (821). On paper, this looks very one-sided, even if the five members of Team Europe all give each other the silent treatment.

As one who has attended many Mosconi Cups, I can't say I've seen more teamwork in one team than the other. On the other hand, the European fans exhibit a level of support and enthusiasm for the event that is otherworldly, even when the event is played in America.

Does home field matter for Team USA? For prestigious events having good prize money, I'd have to say no for 2022 year to date. At Derby City, Filler won the 10-ball, Sanchez-Ruiz won the 9-ball, and Gorst won bank pool and one pocket. At the Arizona Open, Gorst won. At the Wisconsin Open, Kazakis won. At the Las Vegas Open, Zielinski won. At the World 10-ball, Szewczyk won. At Super Billiards Expo, Shaw won. In 2022, there's little evidence that home cooking is worth anything to American players.

The US can win, but it won't be easy.
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I disagree. Doubles matches are ALL teamwork. There are certain pairs that played well together. Woodward and Bergman come to mind.
 
From day one, I didn’t like the idea…I wrote an article for a small mag stating…Europe is a continent…let’s make our side North America.
….I’d like to see one Canuck and one Mexican on the team.
USA against the world is a vanity…the British Empire went through the same thing….and it might help in the country’s relationships.
….nevertheless, I cheer for the USA every year. :)

BTW, re bar boxes…they keep the game alive here…and some pretty good players came out of that scene.…
…and I rarely play on bar tables
 
buckshotshoey said:
I disagree. Doubles matches are ALL teamwork. There are certain pairs that played well together. Woodward and Bergman come to mind.
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I noted that the US has done quite well at doubles over the years, even in the recent lean years. It is in singles where the US has been terrible, and it's not because of lack of teamwork. By your reasoning, we've had good teamwork as we've always held our own at doubles despite sending a weaker team than Europe year after year. You've suggested that we lack teamwork, but I've contended that our solid play in doubles suggests otherwise.

All that said, it is in singles where we've been dominated over the past decade or so, and why we're nearly never in position to win, and that's got nothing to do with teamwork.

If the US is to return to being consistently competitive in the Mosconi, it needs to own the fact that it lacks the players. It's not about chemistry, teamwork or winning more lags (the usual annual excuses) but about raising the level of American play in a sustainable way.
 
Nick B said:
It's not the population or funding. If it was China would be world dominate (though they do produce world class players). USA would now have a hard time against Poland, Germany, UK, Finland, Russia and maybe even Greece.

Here is your enemy. Eliminate this and all we be right in the world.
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Click to expand...
Dam, I was about to like your post and then you had to go put a picture of a BarBox in there a mess everything up!!! Stop it!!

Where Nick B was right, Where Nick B was wrong...,

The population as you said has no baring or Latin America and Africa would be producing lots of world class player too..,

BUT its not the BB! The USA players can't win on any table and haven't been able to for many years before the Diamond BB invasion.
 
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