My 2 cents on aiming systems

406jwh

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Funny ..I am a long time lurker and this will be about my second post ever here .but I've been trying to read thru the insanity on this section for days. After trying to digest how some folks are in love with aiming systems and some are vehemently against them..the light bulb in my head went ding!

Now I'm not a smart man , but I'll give you a little bit of my background so this rambling makes sense. I am not a professional pool player ..far from it . I would consider my self a better than average bar player who loves the game. Ever since I was a young kid I have been obsessed with accuracy of any kind.

This led me to competitive archery ..both compound and recurve ..as well as to owning and operating my own firearms shooting school and building custom precision rifles.

The one thing I have noticed and can attest to. In shooting sports is that there are a million ways to skin a cat...but none of them will work without a solid understanding of the fundamentals.

About a year ago I decided to get better at billiards. I bought a table..hired a coach and started watching more YouTube than I'd care to admit.

About the 3rd video that popped up was an aiming system that as most do claimed if you learned it correctly you would never miss again..well I've heard this before in the shooting world more than once!

Needless to say I was intrigued and I started messing with all sorts of aiming systems to try and get ahead in my learning..and this is what I found.

Aiming systems work..infact most of them have some kind of merit.

Each one is designed by an individual that's brain naturally keys in on the fundamental idea of the system and it just seems to work for them

One aiming system is not better than the rest for everyone...however one might be best suited to your personal learning and shooting style.

People who don't use aiming systems are almost violently aggressive towards those that do (kind of kidding)

People who use aiming systems tend to think every one should atleast try it

The hard truth here is every one uses some type of aiming system. Whether it is subconscious and has been derived through a million shots on the table or in the field . Or it was designed and marketed in a book.

The closest parallel I can draw from the shooting world is that of traditional archery where there are two distinct groups of shooters who share these same arguments daily

One group believes that the only way to shoot is to pick up a bow and instinctively send an arrow to the target ..and if you have really good hand eye coordination and a little luck this works..(it also helps if you have shot a million arrows )

The second group would be gap shooters and folks with aiming systems..these folks have spent countless hours figuring out a system that works well for them and increases the chance of hitting a bullsye and believe me there are probably more of these systems than there are pool aiming systems...if for no other reason than people have been shooting pointy sticks at shit for 1000s of years!

In conclusion when it comes to competitive archery ...every champion uses an aiming system wether they want to admit it or not..one might be consciously aiming ...or one might be aiming through repetition and muscle memory...but they are all aiming.

Same goes with billiards we all aim...we all learn and process information differently..some need more references than others..but the best shooters are the ones that spend enough hours on the table to find something that is repeatable and works for them!

So maybe just maybe ..if we try to understand that all of these systems have the same goal in the end and that no matter how bat shit crazy it sounds to us it probably works for someone, but none of them will work with out a solid fundamentalfoundation...this forum and the shooting world would be a better place!
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
Their isn’t a 100% accurate aiming system. Everyones mind processes information differently. I’ve personally use different aiming systems on different shots. I’ve found the ghost ball to be extremely useless for me except on super thin shots.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
So maybe just maybe ..if we try to understand that all of these systems have the same goal in the end and that no matter how bat shit crazy it sounds to us it probably works for someone, but none of them will work with out a solid fundamentalfoundation...this forum and the shooting world would be a better place!
Careful, making sense on this forum will result in some very salty folks. ;)
😅
 

406jwh

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Their isn’t a 100% accurate aiming system. Everyones mind processes information differently. I’ve personally use different aiming systems on different shots. I’ve found the ghost ball to be extremely useless for me except on super thin shots.
I think a person tends to steal parts and pieces of alot of things to design what works best for them. I would almost guarantee that if you ask any high lever player they are going to tell you they use a mash up of things they have learned..backed up by countless hours of fundamentals to get where they are
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Funny ..I am a long time lurker and this will be about my second post ever here .but I've been trying to read thru the insanity on this section for days. After trying to digest how some folks are in love with aiming systems and some are vehemently against them..the light bulb in my head went ding!

Now I'm not a smart man , but I'll give you a little bit of my background so this rambling makes sense. I am not a professional pool player ..far from it . I would consider my self a better than average bar player who loves the game. Ever since I was a young kid I have been obsessed with accuracy of any kind.

This led me to competitive archery ..both compound and recurve ..as well as to owning and operating my own firearms shooting school and building custom precision rifles.

The one thing I have noticed and can attest to. In shooting sports is that there are a million ways to skin a cat...but none of them will work without a solid understanding of the fundamentals.

About a year ago I decided to get better at billiards. I bought a table..hired a coach and started watching more YouTube than I'd care to admit.

About the 3rd video that popped up was an aiming system that as most do claimed if you learned it correctly you would never miss again..well I've heard this before in the shooting world more than once!

Needless to say I was intrigued and I started messing with all sorts of aiming systems to try and get ahead in my learning..and this is what I found.

Aiming systems work..infact most of them have some kind of merit.

Each one is designed by an individual that's brain naturally keys in on the fundamental idea of the system and it just seems to work for them

One aiming system is not better than the rest for everyone...however one might be best suited to your personal learning and shooting style.

People who don't use aiming systems are almost violently aggressive towards those that do (kind of kidding)

People who use aiming systems tend to think every one should atleast try it

The hard truth here is every one uses some type of aiming system. Whether it is subconscious and has been derived through a million shots on the table or in the field . Or it was designed and marketed in a book.

The closest parallel I can draw from the shooting world is that of traditional archery where there are two distinct groups of shooters who share these same arguments daily

One group believes that the only way to shoot is to pick up a bow and instinctively send an arrow to the target ..and if you have really good hand eye coordination and a little luck this works..(it also helps if you have shot a million arrows )

The second group would be gap shooters and folks with aiming systems..these folks have spent countless hours figuring out a system that works well for them and increases the chance of hitting a bullsye and believe me there are probably more of these systems than there are pool aiming systems...if for no other reason than people have been shooting pointy sticks at shit for 1000s of years!

In conclusion when it comes to competitive archery ...every champion uses an aiming system wether they want to admit it or not..one might be consciously aiming ...or one might be aiming through repetition and muscle memory...but they are all aiming.

Same goes with billiards we all aim...we all learn and process information differently..some need more references than others..but the best shooters are the ones that spend enough hours on the table to find something that is repeatable and works for them!

So maybe just maybe ..if we try to understand that all of these systems have the same goal in the end and that no matter how bat shit crazy it sounds to us it probably works for someone, but none of them will work with out a solid fundamentalfoundation...this forum and the shooting world would be a better place!
Good post here. I'm sure some of the various kool-aid drinkers are looking for a roof to jump off right now. facts and common sense don't

sit well with some of the aiming forum junkies. ;)
 
Last edited:

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Funny ..I am a long time lurker and this will be about my second post ever here .but I've been trying to read thru the insanity on this section for days. After trying to digest how some folks are in love with aiming systems and some are vehemently against them..the light bulb in my head went ding!

Now I'm not a smart man , but I'll give you a little bit of my background so this rambling makes sense. I am not a professional pool player ..far from it . I would consider my self a better than average bar player who loves the game. Ever since I was a young kid I have been obsessed with accuracy of any kind.

This led me to competitive archery ..both compound and recurve ..as well as to owning and operating my own firearms shooting school and building custom precision rifles.

The one thing I have noticed and can attest to. In shooting sports is that there are a million ways to skin a cat...but none of them will work without a solid understanding of the fundamentals.

About a year ago I decided to get better at billiards. I bought a table..hired a coach and started watching more YouTube than I'd care to admit.

About the 3rd video that popped up was an aiming system that as most do claimed if you learned it correctly you would never miss again..well I've heard this before in the shooting world more than once!

Needless to say I was intrigued and I started messing with all sorts of aiming systems to try and get ahead in my learning..and this is what I found.

Aiming systems work..infact most of them have some kind of merit.

Each one is designed by an individual that's brain naturally keys in on the fundamental idea of the system and it just seems to work for them

One aiming system is not better than the rest for everyone...however one might be best suited to your personal learning and shooting style.

People who don't use aiming systems are almost violently aggressive towards those that do (kind of kidding)

People who use aiming systems tend to think every one should atleast try it

The hard truth here is every one uses some type of aiming system. Whether it is subconscious and has been derived through a million shots on the table or in the field . Or it was designed and marketed in a book.

The closest parallel I can draw from the shooting world is that of traditional archery where there are two distinct groups of shooters who share these same arguments daily

One group believes that the only way to shoot is to pick up a bow and instinctively send an arrow to the target ..and if you have really good hand eye coordination and a little luck this works..(it also helps if you have shot a million arrows )

The second group would be gap shooters and folks with aiming systems..these folks have spent countless hours figuring out a system that works well for them and increases the chance of hitting a bullsye and believe me there are probably more of these systems than there are pool aiming systems...if for no other reason than people have been shooting pointy sticks at shit for 1000s of years!

In conclusion when it comes to competitive archery ...every champion uses an aiming system wether they want to admit it or not..one might be consciously aiming ...or one might be aiming through repetition and muscle memory...but they are all aiming.

Same goes with billiards we all aim...we all learn and process information differently..some need more references than others..but the best shooters are the ones that spend enough hours on the table to find something that is repeatable and works for them!

So maybe just maybe ..if we try to understand that all of these systems have the same goal in the end and that no matter how bat shit crazy it sounds to us it probably works for someone, but none of them will work with out a solid fundamentalfoundation...this forum and the shooting world would be a better place!
What a great post!
Thank you
randyg
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Their isn’t a 100% accurate aiming system. Everyones mind processes information differently. I’ve personally use different aiming systems on different shots. I’ve found the ghost ball to be extremely useless for me except on super thin shots.


You are right, it’s like having Size 10 foot.

Not Noy all brand of shoes, styles, or model MAKED SIZE 10 will fit you great, you will want to wear all day.

Aiming is or how to aim, or best aiming system is personal thing.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Nice post - especially this part:
The hard truth here is every one uses some type of aiming system. Whether it is subconscious and has been derived through a million shots on the table or in the field . Or it was designed and marketed in a book.

pj <- (y)
chgo
 
Last edited:

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good post here. I'm sure some the various kool-aid drinkers are looking for a roof to jump off right now. facts and common sense doesn't sit well with some of the aiming forum junkies. ;)
As an aiming forum and system junkie, I see nothing wrong with his post. I agree that everyone uses a system of some type. Well, except you, never heard you admit to using one.
 

Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To say an aiming system can give a player an ability to never miss is ridiculous. I think if you see anyone shooting exclusively with an aiming system, any aiming system, and they rarely miss, I'd bet they didn't miss a hell of a lot before they started using an aiming system either. That is not to say, in my opinion, that such a player is subconsciously reverting to some other skill that must be allowing the aiming system to appear to work better, as some here argue. My stepson is the worst pool player on this planet, yet I can tell him a simple shot with an aiming system and he will be pretty successful with it at the time, though he probably can't hit a rail with it tomorrow. There is no subconscious anything going on there I promise. The sad truth about aiming, regardless of how you do it, is that you have to do it accurately for it to be repeatable. It doesn't matter if you use ghost ball, contact point, portion of one ball aimed at some portion of the other, side of the stick or ferrule, none of it matters if you cannot repeat it accurately. So if you find some method that you can repeat accurately it would be kind of dumb not to use it. As far as the arguments on this forum about aiming systems, they pretty much always are rooted by somebody with a better way that feels a need to talk down about and try to demean others that use them or even the system themselves. I mean hell, if I aimed that great I'd be playing pool rather sitting in a damn aiming forum arguing with others about how they aim. I don't know of many people who try to tell anybody they SHOULD be using a certain aiming system. I've seen a bunch tell folks they shouldn't.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
To say an aiming system can give a player an ability to never miss is ridiculous. I think if you see anyone shooting exclusively with an aiming system, any aiming system, and they rarely miss, I'd bet they didn't miss a hell of a lot before they started using an aiming system either. That is not to say, in my opinion, that such a player is subconsciously reverting to some other skill that must be allowing the aiming system to appear to work better, as some here argue. My stepson is the worst pool player on this planet, yet I can tell him a simple shot with an aiming system and he will be pretty successful with it at the time, though he probably can't hit a rail with it tomorrow. There is no subconscious anything going on there I promise. The sad truth about aiming, regardless of how you do it, is that you have to do it accurately for it to be repeatable. It doesn't matter if you use ghost ball, contact point, portion of one ball aimed at some portion of the other, side of the stick or ferrule, none of it matters if you cannot repeat it accurately. So if you find some method that you can repeat accurately it would be kind of dumb not to use it. As far as the arguments on this forum about aiming systems, they pretty much always are rooted by somebody with a better way that feels a need to talk down about and try to demean others that use them or even the system themselves. I mean hell, if I aimed that great I'd be playing pool rather sitting in a damn aiming forum arguing with others about how they aim. I don't know of many people who try to tell anybody they SHOULD be using a certain aiming system. I've seen a bunch tell folks they shouldn't.


Your observation is great, some people put trailer in front of pickup.

If you can not shoot in straight line, do that first, master that skill before worrying about aiming.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
My 2 cents and in advance i tell you its worth less
unless your stoke can hit where you are aiming
it really doesnt matter
jmho
icbw
I know one that is sold as magic.
It forces you to shoot straight.
:p
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
You are right, it’s like having Size 10 foot.

Not Noy all brand of shoes, styles, or model MAKED SIZE 10 will fit you great, you will want to wear all day.

Aiming is or how to aim, or best aiming system is personal thing.
Don’t even get me started on shoes. One box to the next don’t fit right even the same model and size.

Back to topic.

I can’t ghostball for shit, I can for only ghost ball for extremely thin shots maybe 1/16 ball shots or less. For regular shots, I’m not even sure what it’s called, I picked it up in a book about twenty years ago. I started trying to do some research seems very similar method that they advertise SVB uses and the ferrule edge method. The only issues that I find with this method is 7/8 and 1/8 shots seem difficult and not as accurate. I usually have to bear down on these shots. It’s probably the way that I perceive these shots.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
We’re is Geno❓ He would tell you how to fix your Aming problems with a phone call to him.

For phone lesson.🤓
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
There are way too many moving parts and variables when you take a shot for any "system" to put the ball in as precise of a spot as it will sometimes have to be. Systems will get you in the ballpark, and give you a starting point for your brain to process information from.
They also help to focus the conscious mind, thus allowing the subconscious to do what is needed.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I know one that is sold as magic.
It forces you to shoot straight.
:p
Yeah, it's the laser beam device attached to the shaft of your cue. I don't know if it forces you to shoot straight
but it does show when you shoot crooked, along with the OB not going in. The newest model is called
the "Punisher". It emits an electrical charge down to the grip part when you go offline at different shock levels for
varying misses. A minor miss gives your stroking hand a shock. A full ball miss to a pocket makes the hair on your
head stand straight up unless you're bald. Then the scalp starts to bubble. A really bad miss produces the highest
jolt and makes the player piss his pants.

Would you like to order? Just $199.99 + shipping. Get yours TODAY! (adult diapers are extra)
 
Last edited:

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
There are way too many moving parts and variables when you take a shot for any "system" to put the ball in as precise of a spot as it will sometimes have to be. Systems will get you in the ballpark, and give you a starting point for your brain to process information from.
They also help to focus the conscious mind, thus allowing the subconscious to do what is needed.
So, once a system gets the person to the starting point, what really goes on in the conscious mind allowing the subconscious mind to do what needs to be done? Can this be taught and passed on from one player to another?
Does it mean there's no need whatsoever for instructors or Youtube videos illustrating and explaining the process?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Careful, making sense on this forum will result in some very salty folks. ;)
😅
What is sense, what is it applied to, and is there a grand master arbiter of sense other than one who is self-appointed? (btw, the OP did make sense to me)
 
Top