my 9-ball complaint

make 9 ball combo-free

  • yes

    Votes: 4 8.5%

  • no

    Votes: 42 89.4%

  • undecided

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Total voters
    47
duke@neo.rr.com

duke@neo.rr.com

soon to be banned
Silver Member
I love the game because of the fact you only get ONE ball to play with at a time. what I don't understand is why the rules don't make the 9 the LAST ball to fall. I mean...isn't the game fast enough? "players" around here seem to think that just because making the 9 is the point of the game, they have to play it EVERY chance they get. I played in Oil City this weekend for a tournament, and as soon as it came to be 9-ball time, that's all I had done to me. I was 2 and out. 9 ball is fast enough without all the "banging"! we have gamblers that do it all the time. there's only 9 balls on the table for pete's sake!! then people wonder why they can't get any better. I vote we make 9 ball a game where NO 9 ball combos are allowed. I'd LOVE to find a tourney like that, because the better players will win 9 times out of 10. anybody else feel the same way??
 
if its open im cool

Yea if it's a handicrapped tournament with me or you giving 3 or 4 games on the wire to someone framming the 9 it does suck out loud. I feel better in open tournaments so thats about all I play in to keep from getting bit but that said the last handicrapped event i played in at Smokin Cue in Charlotte NC, single elim race to 5 I play a 5 first spotting him the wild 6,7, and 8 I lost coin toss he broke made 3 balls and missed next shot only to slop in a money ball Iwin next game break dry and never shoot again he breaks and runs 2 racks ,then frams a money ball ,breaks and makes the 9 last game. He didn't win tourney though cause he gave all his luck to me. Anyway they can fram one money ball and they still have to make it so what can u do, have fun.
 
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I would prefer re-spotting the 9-ball if it is made on a combo. That would put a stop to the bangers who just go for flukes, and it would usually allow for a good player to continue a run in cases where the 9-ball ends up over a pocket, or blocking another OB.

Combos are a very creative part of the mix of the game. I would not want a blanket banning of combos.

I even think that call-shot can restrict a player's range of creativity / knowledge when they are faced with shots that can be played to give double, or even triple chances.

Such shots are not flukes, they are planned...accounted for in the planning anyway. Perhaps players should get a 2-call shot option. eg. 6 in the corner and/or 5 in the center. Just a thought:p
 
Hey, Duke, hope you're well.

I'd have to say that I disagree. Combos and caroms on the nine out of sequence are part of the game's charm and fascination. Anything that would diminish the role of two way and other multi-purpose shots would cheapen nine ball in my view, and at high level, there are many such shots involving the nine.

I would be fine with adding a rule that says that the nine must be called if played out of sequence, but only if it is understood that if the nine is missed, if any other ball goes in on the same shot, the innning continues.

This would make the practice of slamming the nine around relatively inadvisable without stripping the game of some its most interesting strategies.
 
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ok

sjm said:
Hey, Duke, hope you're well.

I'd have to say that I disagree. Combos and caroms on the nine out of sequence are part of the game's charm and fascination. Anything that would diminish the role of two way and other multi-purpose shots would cheapen nine ball in my view, and at high level, there are many such shots involving the nine.

I would be fine with adding a rule that says that the nine must be called if played out of sequence, but only if it is understood that if the nine is missed, if any other ball goes in on the same shot, the innning continues. This would make the practice of slamming the nine around relatively inadvisable.
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thanks sjm, you as well. I'm more or less looking to find a way to discourage "9 ball banging". it's just ugly. does anyone have any confidence in their game anymore? I'm not playing GOOD, but at least I'm consistent.
 
Go to 10 Ball perhaps?

I have become a huge fan of 10 Ball lately. I think making 10 ball a game like you describe would be better. It will take some of the luck of the break out of the equation and also if you eliminated the combo in 10 ball it would make that a more interesting game while leaving the 9 ball rules as they are. I think when you have handicapped tournys the combo is the only reason half the players even enter. They know they have a chance. If you took the combo out of nine ball you take out the bangers. Let me be more clear. If you take out the bangers you take out most of the entrants. Less entrants means less money in the pot. Less money means NO ONE wants to enter the tourny. 9 ball has NEVER been set up to show off talent. It was promoted for TV making a game that is quick and easy to understand. Most games in the pool industry are geared towards people of average talent. Like me.

PS...I voted no.
 
Be careful what you ask for!

This is an argument that has been going on for ever and may continue that way forever.

As a result of many years of running tournaments, I have been approached countless times with regards to changing certain rules. Usually those requests are meant to slow down novice or lesser skilled players.

Unfortunately, if you make the game harder for the less serious players, and therefore easier for the skilled players, they feel they have no chance and eventually stop participating. Now the field and the payout gets smaller. You cannot force a novice to want to get better by making the game more difficult for him/her, so it is up to the better players to play through the luck.

Think about it...are the lesser skilled players coming in 1, 2, 3 in the standings consistently? Of course not. So why change the rules and hurt the numbers?

The rules of nineball are great as they are. The only rule change I would make is that the game be played out instead of rewarding a game for the nineball being made on the break.

Gene
 
I would be happy if 9 ball was banned altogether :D.

Personally I think Rotation is the game to play if you want a game that requires you to hit the lowest numbered ball on the table. At least runs count for something if you don't complete the run out.
 
duke@neo.rr.com said:
I love the game because of the fact you only get ONE ball to play with at a time. what I don't understand is why the rules don't make the 9 the LAST ball to fall. I mean...isn't the game fast enough? "players" around here seem to think that just because making the 9 is the point of the game, they have to play it EVERY chance they get. I played in Oil City this weekend for a tournament, and as soon as it came to be 9-ball time, that's all I had done to me. I was 2 and out. 9 ball is fast enough without all the "banging"! we have gamblers that do it all the time. there's only 9 balls on the table for pete's sake!! then people wonder why they can't get any better. I vote we make 9 ball a game where NO 9 ball combos are allowed. I'd LOVE to find a tourney like that, because the better players will win 9 times out of 10. anybody else feel the same way??
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I think that combinations and caroms for early 9's should be allowed; however, I think that 9 ball would be a better game if all shots were called. If not all shots, then at least the 9.

I know what you mean though, particularly in handicapped tournaments, with people slamming balls around in the hopes of making the 9 every chance the opportunity comes up.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing this...


Tournament= Call 9

Ring Game= Bang away:D

But I wouldn't be for no combos on the 9 in any play. Thats 9-Ball. There are many other games to play out there and there will be many more but 9-Ball is associated with "riding the 9" so...it would also take away some beautiful shots that makes 9-Ball so exciting.
 
Cameron Smith said:
I would be happy if 9 ball was banned altogether :D.
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Amen. I'm not a fan of 9ball. I can see why it is good for gambling. You can take people's money faster. But for fun I do not like it.

A lot of times if I have to combo a ball into the 9ball and pocket it we'll spot the ball and the shooter gets to keep on shooting. I have wondered about calling pockets in 9ball. For 8ball I think pockets should be called. Or Bar rules with ball in hand for scratches. 9ball there are few enough balls as to where a skilled player is going to be obvious about where they shoot. 9ball should be called.

That's me though. I prefer 1pocket and straight pool. I'm catching on to Rotation.
 
good statement Gene

Cuedog said:
As a result of many years of running tournaments, I have been approached countless times with regards to changing certain rules. Usually those requests are meant to slow down novice or lesser skilled players.

Unfortunately, if you make the game harder for the less serious players, and therefore easier for the skilled players, they feel they have no chance and eventually stop participating. Now the field and the payout gets smaller. You cannot force a novice to want to get better by making the game more difficult for him/her, so it is up to the better players to play through the luck.

Think about it...are the lesser skilled players coming in 1, 2, 3 in the standings consistently? Of course not. So why change the rules and hurt the numbers?


Gene
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Thats what I said! When will these people listen to us Gene?
 
If you wanted to make it so that a combo on the nine doesnt win you should make the rules so that you have to clear the table, no matter what ball is last. To make someone spot the nineball because they made a combination means they made a ball and as a reward they have to add a ball back on the table.

Luck is a big part of nine ball, and it seems the lower the level of play the more luck is involved. It amazes me how many times I here someone say it should be a call pocket game, like that will take out the luck factor. Everyone seems to forget how many games are won by missing a ball but leaving the opponent hooked or with an almost impossible shot. How should we deal with that type of luck?

I think if someone spent some time keeping numbers they would find more games are won by lucky leaves than by making a ball in the wrong pocket.

On the same note, I hate the rules where the nine ball is the only ball that must be called. If someone lucks in the eight with shape on the nine they win, but if they luck in the nine ball they dont? I just dont get it :)

Nine ball is my least favorite game to play, Id much rather spend time playing one pocket or straight pool.
 
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At one of our pool halls (sad to say it closed down, tho), they had this Sunday 9B tournament where no slop was allowed at all, on any ball -- call pocket. And you could not get out on the 9B early. You could call a combo or carom into the 9, but it was respotted.
 
9 Ball

For money matches - leave the rules alone because combos, early 9's, figure so much into spotting in matching up. Take it away, and the C or C+ players will not match up with A players anymore.

For tournament play - Simply make it, for combos, you have to call the pocket, and if you make it, you win, if you miss, you lose the game. That will put a stop to banging the 9 in, and players will shoot only legitimate
combos.

Smae tournament rules for caroms too.
 
Combo's and Caroms Take Skill......

I can understand why the skilled players would like to remove luck from the game, but what everyone seems to be overlooking is that is takes a lot of skill to be able to carom off of one ball with the INTENT of pocketing the 9... By the same token combonation shots must be hit properly or they don't go......

If I recognize a sinkable combo for the win I should be allowed to win with that combo. Provided I hit the proper object ball first why is it a problem......I'll call the 9 if you like after all I know where I'm trying to put it if I'm trying to combo it in.

What if I carom off of the object ball and drop the 9. Say you break drop the 1, play the 2 and then try to safety play the 3. If I carom off of the 3 and sink the 9 will you want to deny me that win too? If I can see it to try it I should be able to call it execute and win.....Why is this unfair or a problem.

I think the real problem here is that you don't like to lose by what you percieve as chance, luck, kismet or whatever you want to call it. Sometimes you get a lucky roll and in a game where Slop counts.....well that's the way they roll.

Just because some folks rearrange the whole table every time they shoot, doesn't mean we should change the rules further handicapping those of us who are more proficient at combos or caroms than you might be...

Oh and if I call a combo or carom and miss the shot, but hit the proper object ball, I shouldn't lose or give up BIH as some have suggested. If that's the case you should be prepared to give up ball in hand for every missed shot...

But that's just this banger's opinion

McCue Banger McCue
 
I sympathize with you.

I've played people that slopped in 1/3 of the shots. I've played people that start "Hunting the 9" from the opening break.

It makes no difference to me. Since 95% of what I pocket goes in where I wanted it.......I know they can't keep that up in a race of 5 or more.

People that hunt the 9 only give me a better chance to win.
 
if you're playing with players who think they need to make the 9 any chance they get, then you just need to play with better players instead of bangers. i think the poll says it all. its not often you get a good look at a 9 combo. the skilled players will only take it when its the right option, and still its a tough shot.
 
One of the AZB pros and I talked about this in Padre Island and were both of the opinion that 9-Ball should be a call pocket game. Think about it... this is the most popular tournament game in pool and it's "anything goes"! I don't mind someone shooting a combination on me... hell, it's a tough shot unless it's wired, but I hate to get slopped out on by a player that can't run three balls and just tries to roll the 9 every chance they get... happens a LOT in rated tournaments. At the very, very least, make the 9 a called pocket, but I'd like to see the entire game call pocket. Ever read Grady Matthews rules for 9 ball. I could play 9 ball like that all the time. Makes it a much more skill oriented game.
 
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