My Apology To Deno Andrews

[Deadon]

Wouldn't you say Mr. Helfert that despite your characterization of Trudeau as a "thief", that at this point he has indeed paid out far more than he has taken in? For a thief he is going about the theft the wrong way in my eyes. Thief he may very well be, but he hasn't stolen anything but time from the players at this point.

It seems that Mr. Mackey, according to your account of events regarding the PBT/Camel Tour, is far more the thief.

I suppose we would have to know how much he made on TV deals, ads and other income aside from the qualifier fees, including kick-backs from the Casinos, which if you believe he didn't get any, you are probably mistaken. If the players are not paid, and soon, he has clearly committed plenty of crimes.

Ask the players that have footed expenses and not been paid if they feel they haven't lost anything.

 

[Roadie]

True, I don't know what he has "taken" in totally. However, the comment was meant to say that he has paid out far more than he has taken in from the players. I think that this might not be in dispute.

On individual levels this is definitely not true. For the 50 players who qualifed for Reno and have not yet been paid the expenses for most of them certainly exceeds their IPT income. The bottom 50 of the money list are probably on the bubble as well in regards to expenses vs. revenue.

If Trudeau did not have the funds available for Reno throughout the entire run of of qualifiers then he is probably guilty of fraud for the enticement to invest based on the promise of a guaranteed reward. All of the qualificants and all of the tour card holders fulfilled their end by making the investments in entry fees and expenses and personal appearances. Trudeau has not held up his end and with each passing day it appears he will be unlikely to do so.

Hopefully, some sort of legal remedy will be sought. Given Trudeau's past I doubt that he will find much leniency in the courts. There does not appear to be much of a stretch to attach the IPT as a part of Natural Cures and Trudeau has made himself out to be Natural Cures and the IPT so there is probably a good case that by his public statements he has incurred personal liability.

 

[stevelomako]

that Thorsten Hohmann considers himself a very lucky man at this point in time... I hope he put some back in savings.

What makes you think the Vegas event is all paid up????????

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

You win the "Brown Nose Of The Year" award.

There's no Brown Nosing Jay. I call it like I see it. If I could afford Deno, he would be on my staff but I do reluctantly appreciate the "honors".

I doubt if I am going to get a call to play in the next IPT.

But just for the record, tell me who else in the history of pool has allowed pool players to earn the kind of money that the IPT has already paid out this year alone.

Look maybe there are some legitimate problems going on that we aren't privy to. And who knows, maybe there are some unethical things going on OR NOT. I've talked to an IPT pool player who is waiting for his money and while he wishes he had the money right now, he believes that everything will turn out just fine. Time will be the judge and I think a little more time is deserved.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

How has Kevin Trudeau helped pool players? By having a couple of successful tournaments and then putting them through all kinds of hell about being paid? Kevin Trudeau is not Mother Theresa although he is a mother. This is one guy not to be trusted, whether the IPT makes it or not.

Kevin Trudeau has allowed professional players to earn more money in the last year than most players have earned in TEN YEARS.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

Respectfully, if total prize money paid is the measure of what a man has contributed to the game, you should note that the PBT under Don Mackey paid out more prize money than the IPT has under Trudeau.

Don Mackey should be breathing a sigh of relief around now, as he may soon be viewed as having perpetrated just the second biggest swindle aganst pro pool players in the sport's history.

I'm delighted for the handful that made nice scores on this seemingly short-lived tour, but I think it's arguable whether Trudeau has contributed anything at all to pro pool.

I would love to know how much prize money was paid out by the PBT and over what period of time. I can't imagine professional pool players taking home hundreds of thousands of dollars for winning ONE TOURNAMENT even if the PBT was number two.

KT has stirred up a lot of interest in pool. He has contributed his time and MONEY to promoting the sport like no other entity before.

I guess I am just blind to understanding the anger expressed toward KT and Deno.

FTR, I expect KT to pay off the owed money to the players and hope that he will.

Thanks,
JoeyA (maybe wearing rose tinted glasses) LOL

 

[jay helfert]

Kevin Trudeau has allowed professional players to earn more money in the last year than most players have earned in TEN YEARS.
JoeyA

Totally untrue! He has had exactly two tournaments that paid prize money, and one was for 43 players only. So one full field event where a handful of players made some serious coin. But not more than they had made in TEN years. The WPC has been paying the winner 75K for some time, and several TV events pay 25 to 50K to the winners. U.S. Open 40K.

Efren won 163K five years ago, and got paid! Marlon won 100K last year in Texas, and got paid! Santos won 73K last year in the Skins game, and got paid! I agree the payouts were good for the two IPT events where the players were paid. But what this tour will be noted for, if it folds, will be how much remained unpaid!

By the way, you bring up the PBT and the Camel Tour. The overall winner each year got 50K, and even 10th place paid 12K.

 

[ironman]

I would love to know how much prize money was paid out by the PBT and over what period of time. I can't imagine professional pool players taking home hundreds of thousands of dollars for winning ONE TOURNAMENT even if the PBT was number two.

KT has stirred up a lot of interest in pool. He has contributed his time and MONEY to promoting the sport like no other entity before.

I guess I am just blind to understanding the anger expressed toward KT and Deno.

FTR, I expect KT to pay off the owed money to the players and hope that he will.

Thanks,
JoeyA (maybe wearing rose tinted glasses) LOL

Hey Joey,

Kt did take a bold initiative and went against the grain in putting the IPT together. He had some great ideas. He just didn't get it sold.

99% of the world wants to see these guys get paid. There 5 of them there with us last weekend and you saw the look on their faces. It is really sad.

As someone said earlier, KT knew darn well that he couldn't payoff before the Reno event ever started, and he has been Moon walking backwards ever since. This is what he will never be forgiven for and I doubt he will lose much sleep over that.

I feel badly for all the players, but just imagine if you had posted $2000, played and qualified, then gone to Reno, and gotten Stiffed. I would be the maddest person on this planet.

This is the part that is going to be hard to erase, no matter what happens from here on out.

See ya down the road somewhere. Take care!
Lewis

 

[Fleece3]

Yeah, he flashed his cash in an attempt to pull off a smoke-and-mirrors flip job, found no buyer, set expectations no reasonable business plan could possibly sustain, and now he's playing "check's in the mail".

With friends like these......

Are you KIDDING. Pick any IPT event that the players WERE paid, the payout from that one tournament is more than ALL of the UPA events for a year COMBINED. Even if the IPT goes under it has PAID more money and gotten more TV coverage for pool than ANY other organization in history.

 

[jay helfert]

Are you KIDDING. Pick any IPT event that the players WERE paid, the payout from that one tournament is more than ALL of the UPA events for a year COMBINED. Even if the IPT goes under it has PAID more money and gotten more TV coverage for pool than ANY other organization in history.

Again, simply not true. Matchroom Sports has paid out in excess of $3,000,000 over the last seven years. And had television shows on major networks around the world, much of it live coverage.

The coverage of the WPC alone dwarfs all the other Pool on TV combined. The IPT has reached a fraction of the market that the WPBA reaches in every one of their televised events. Same for Billiards International and all their events on ESPN.

The WPBA pays out nearly $1,000,000 a year currently and has paid out well over $5,000,000 since it's inception. Sorry Fleece, wrong on all counts.

 

[MikeJanis]

Are you KIDDING. Pick any IPT event that the players WERE paid, the payout from that one tournament is more than ALL of the UPA events for a year COMBINED. Even if the IPT goes under it has PAID more money and gotten more TV coverage for pool than ANY other organization in history.

I respectfully disagree with your above statements. I believe each of these individual tours Camel, the PBT, WPBA and the WPA have paid out more than the IPT has so far. I would even venture to say that the National 9-Ball Tour (Texas Express) paid out more over their lifespan. It's just that nobody has ever done it in such a short time period before.

As far as the TV coverage goes I'm almost positive the WPBA or Matchroom Sports holds that title.

If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

I'm not denouncing what the IPT has done thus far prior to the Reno event I am just stating better facts.

Respectfully,

Mj

 

[Fleece3]

Again, simply not true. Matchroom Sports has paid out in excess of $3,000,000 over the last seven years. And had television shows on major networks around the world, much of it live coverage.

The coverage of the WPC alone dwarfs all the other Pool on TV combined. The IPT has reached a fraction of the market that the WPBA reaches in every one of their televised events. Same for Billiards International and all their events on ESPN.

The WPBA pays out nearly $1,000,000 a year currently and has paid out well over $5,000,000 since it's inception. Sorry Fleece, wrong on all counts.

Again, I am speaking on ONE tour, One calendar year. Not the past SEVEN years. I said the UPA in ONE YEAR. Name ONE tour that combine one year events paid out more than the IPT KOTH???

 

[Fleece3]

I respectfully disagree with your above statements. I believe each of these individual tours Camel, the PBT, WPBA and the WPA have paid out more than the IPT has so far. I would even venture to say that the National 9-Ball Tour (Texas Express) paid out more over their lifespan. It's just that nobody has ever done it in such a short time period before.

As far as the TV coverage goes I'm almost positive the WPBA or Matchroom Sports holds that title.

If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

I'm not denouncing what the IPT has done thus far prior to the Reno event I am just stating better facts.

Respectfully,

Mj

Again, I am speaking on ONE tour, One calendar year. Not the past SEVEN years. I said the UPA in ONE YEAR. Name ONE tour that combine one year events paid out more than the IPT KOTH???

 

[MikeJanis]

Again, I am speaking on ONE tour, One calendar year. Not the past SEVEN years. I said the UPA in ONE YEAR. Name ONE tour that combine one year events paid out more than the IPT KOTH???

No fleece, in the second part of your statement yo said:

Even if the IPT goes under it has PAID more money and gotten more TV coverage for pool than ANY other organization in history.

then I stated:

I

I respectfully disagree with your above statements. I believe each of these individual tours Camel, the PBT, WPBA and the WPA have paid out more than the IPT has so far. I would even venture to say that the National 9-Ball Tour (Texas Express) paid out more over their lifespan. It's just that nobody has ever done it in such a short time period before.

As far as the TV coverage goes I'm almost positive the WPBA or Matchroom Sports holds that title.

If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

I'm not denouncing what the IPT has done thus far prior to the Reno event I am just stating better facts..

Now for one calendar year you are probably correct but they have definately not paid out more in their history than any other tour nor have they had as much TV coverage as others.

Additionally, it is with my highest of hopes that the IPT will recover fromm this hiccup and mve forward as a leader in our industry.

Respectfully,

Mj

 

[JoeyA]

Hey Joey,

Kt did take a bold initiative and went against the grain in putting the IPT together. He had some great ideas. He just didn't get it sold.

99% of the world wants to see these guys get paid. There 5 of them there with us last weekend and you saw the look on their faces. It is really sad.

As someone said earlier, KT knew darn well that he couldn't payoff before the Reno event ever started, and he has been Moon walking backwards ever since. This is what he will never be forgiven for and I doubt he will lose much sleep over that.

I feel badly for all the players, but just imagine if you had posted $2000, played and qualified, then gone to Reno, and gotten Stiffed. I would be the maddest person on this planet.

This is the part that is going to be hard to erase, no matter what happens from here on out.

See ya down the road somewhere. Take care!
Lewis

Lewis, I too would be angy as hell at KT if I got stiffed and wouldn't forget it easily.....

But the bottom line is I don't think enough time has passed to judge whether or not the players will get paid. When that time has passed and the players still don't have their money, then we ALL should throw mud at KT but IMHO, not until then.

JoeyA

P.S. You run a very nice tournament. Thanks for the hospitality.

 

[jay helfert]

Again, I am speaking on ONE tour, One calendar year. Not the past SEVEN years. I said the UPA in ONE YEAR. Name ONE tour that combine one year events paid out more than the IPT KOTH???

Go home Fleece. You need to work on your stroke. I see some major wobbles.

 

[jay helfert]

Lewis, I too would be angy as hell at KT if I got stiffed and wouldn't forget it easily.....

But the bottom line is I don't think enough time has passed to judge whether or not the players will get paid. When that time has passed and the players still don't have their money, then we ALL should throw mud at KT but IMHO, not until then.

JoeyA

P.S. You run a very nice tournament. Thanks for the hospitality.

40 days and counting. How many more days do you think we should wait, before becoming concerned?

 

[JoeyA]

40 days and counting. How many more days do you think we should wait, before becoming concerned?

60 days from today should be adequate time for the IPT to shit or get off the pot.

Look Jay, it sucks that you and many of the other players didn't get paid when you were supposed to. I just don't see condemning the IPT at this point as helping the situation. There were be plenty of time for that if and when the dealin's done. And should all of the accusations and innuendos become true, I will join in the chorus of people who despise and berates anyone who has screwed poolplayers out of any money.

Personally, I am keeping those rose-tinted glasses on for just a while longer.
JoeyA

 

[Russ Chewning]

60 days from today should be adequate time for the IPT to shit or get off the pot.

Look Jay, it sucks that you and many of the other players didn't get paid when you were supposed to. I just don't see condemning the IPT at this point as helping the situation. There were be plenty of time for that if and when the dealin's done. And should all of the accusations and innuendos become true, I will join in the chorus of people who despise and berates anyone who has screwed poolplayers out of any money.

Personally, I am keeping those rose-tinted glasses on for just a while longer.
JoeyA

Come on Joey....

60 days would be reasonable in only one situation. If it were actually TRUE that a deal was in the works, and close to being completed.

Considering the mucho documentation on KT's lies to the community, there is no reason to believe the above is true.

Russ

 

[jay helfert]

60 days from today should be adequate time for the IPT to shit or get off the pot.

Look Jay, it sucks that you and many of the other players didn't get paid when you were supposed to. I just don't see condemning the IPT at this point as helping the situation. There were be plenty of time for that if and when the dealin's done. And should all of the accusations and innuendos become true, I will join in the chorus of people who despise and berates anyone who has screwed poolplayers out of any money.

Personally, I am keeping those rose-tinted glasses on for just a while longer.
JoeyA

I don't see waiting as the best option right now. I think it is time to act. Waiting plays into KT's hands. I think he counts on people being slow to act.