My day with Hal Houle and his aiming system

*sigh*

I am an investigator by trade, that and a network admin. I can do research, know how to look for stuff on the net, etc. I researched the threads, read till my eyes were crossed, have been to I don't know how many pool school web sites and read innumerable threads. ( yeah yeah yeah, I know, there's more )Printed what I could. Went to the pool hall last night, loosened up a bit, took out my printouts, and started trying it. I don't get it. Tried for an hour or so. Nada. Had to go back to basics, line the center of the ball up through the pocket, line the cue ball up to that spot, step into the shot ...........

I am still open minded enough though that is someone DOES have approval from Hal to elaborate JUST little bit more, I'LL TRY IT!!!
 
Flex said:
Scott,

You have to make a living, as most everybody does these days, and it's very understandable that as you are in the business of giving high-level pool instruction that there are things which are complicated to put into words on an internet forum and need to be transmitted orally in person. Some things need to be shown and not described. I understand that.

However, absent even minimal description of the SAM methods about which much is spoken, to think that everybody will want to pay for something that isn't even really described is somewhat debatable.

There are those who have said that professional pool players figuratively "eat it up," the SAM or Hal Houle aiming systems, that is. Would you be so kind as to name some of those professionals, so that independent verification of the methods can be made?

One thing I've learned about aiming is that depending on the stroke, and where the cue ball will be struck, even directly on the vertical axis of the cue ball, different amounts of throw will be produced, and some adjustments are called for when aiming. Perhaps there's a bit of unintended english that gets involved, whatever. But aiming in those situations, at least for me, needs to be adjusted.

So then, do you know some pros who use Hal's or the SAM systems, and if so, who are they?

Thanks so much!

Flex
Click to expand...

Is this the end of the thread?
JoeyA
 
RascalDoc said:
I am an investigator by trade, that and a network admin. I can do research, know how to look for stuff on the net, etc. I researched the threads, read till my eyes were crossed, have been to I don't know how many pool school web sites and read innumerable threads. ( yeah yeah yeah, I know, there's more )Printed what I could. Went to the pool hall last night, loosened up a bit, took out my printouts, and started trying it. I don't get it. Tried for an hour or so. Nada. Had to go back to basics, line the center of the ball up through the pocket, line the cue ball up to that spot, step into the shot ...........

I am still open minded enough though that is someone DOES have approval from Hal to elaborate JUST little bit more, I'LL TRY IT!!!
Click to expand...

Just a thought for you RascalDoc. I have been using a similar system to SAM and didn't know it over the past 7 years. I had been using this mainly for combinations, but, extended it into shots making.

I placed my cue stick at the contact point on the object ball and then I would drag it back to approximate 1/2 distance of a ghost ball (1 1/8 inches). Then turned the cue stick towards the cue ball and this would become my aim point on the object ball.

Once I got my aim points, I saw the similarities in all shots and didn't have to do this anymore.

My suggestion to you, is, print out the SAM diagrams or as you stated, these might be the ones you have. Go back to the pool room. Set up ghost balls with object balls in the same positions as in the diagrams. Take your cue ball back about 2 foot and aim at the ghost ball and get the feel for the aim points. I think once you see this, you will understand the system better.
 
thanks

klockdoc said:
Just a thought for you RascalDoc. I have been using a similar system to SAM and didn't know it over the past 7 years. I had been using this mainly for combinations, but, extended it into shots making.

I placed my cue stick at the contact point on the object ball and then I would drag it back to approximate 1/2 distance of a ghost ball (1 1/8 inches). Then turned the cue stick towards the cue ball and this would become my aim point on the object ball.

Once I got my aim points, I saw the similarities in all shots and didn't have to do this anymore.

My suggestion to you, is, print out the SAM diagrams or as you stated, these might be the ones you have. Go back to the pool room. Set up ghost balls with object balls in the same positions as in the diagrams. Take your cue ball back about 2 foot and aim at the ghost ball and get the feel for the aim points. I think once you see this, you will understand the system better.
Click to expand...
This is what I am using now. Took some lessons from John Ditoro locally and pretty much, that is what he taught. Line the cue ball up, center through center of pocket, gives contact point, ( I do visualize a ghost ball ), then line center of cue ball up on the ghost ball, then step into the shot. Last night I tried using the edges and quaters and center, and got lost. And I have not found the SAM diagrams .... yet. You would not by chance have a link to them would you? :D Thanks for the response though I appreciate it
 
I don't know what is harder to believe... He has this magical aiming system or during his 83 years he hasn't showed someone that would post or talk about the system. Steve Davis has a video talking about full ball, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 ball hits. Says to practice those and use them for starting points and make minor adjustments from those points. I think the biggest problem is players hitting those contact points with the wrong point on the cue ball. Some people do it automatically while others spend hours and many aiming systems trying to find it. I think asking someone about contact points would be like asking them the answer to x + y = 4. Most would say 2 + 2 = 4, others 1 + 3 = 4, 3 + 1 = 4 or 1.5 + 2.5 = 4. The pro's answer would be 4 + 0 = 4. They start with the right answer and have to do something foolish to muck it up.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I don't know what is harder to believe... He has this magical aiming system or during his 83 years he hasn't showed someone that would post or talk about the system. Steve Davis has a video talking about full ball, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 ball hits. Says to practice those and use them for starting points and make minor adjustments from those points. I think the biggest problem is players hitting those contact points with the wrong point on the cue ball. Some people do it automatically while others spend hours and many aiming systems trying to find it. I think asking someone about contact points would be like asking them the answer to x + y = 4. Most would say 2 + 2 = 4, others 1 + 3 = 4, 3 + 1 = 4 or 1.5 + 2.5 = 4. The pro's answer would be 4 + 0 = 4. They start with the right answer and have to do something foolish to muck it up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but what does he know - other than how to be the
best player in the world for a decade or so?

Simple answer - these 'few aim point' systems work fine as
_descriptive_, the problem arises when proponents think
they can be _proscriptive_

Dale<the proof is out there if you just look it up>
 
I read the first 5 pages and I couldn't stomach the rest. Did anyone ever let us know where they buried Hoffa? Did we find out where the map to the Holy Grail is?

I need answers dammit. How do I join the Knights Templer? WTF is in the Secret Sauce at McDonalds.
 
Bishop said:
WTF is in the Secret Sauce at McDonalds.
Click to expand...

Soybean oil, pickle relish [diced pickles, high fructose corn syrup, sugar, vinegar, corn syrup, salt, calcium chloride, xanthan gum, potassium sorbate (preservative), spice extractives, polysorbate 80], distilled vinegar, water, egg yolks, high fructose corn syrup, onion powder, mustard seed, salt, spices, propylene glycol alginate, sodium benzoate (preservative), mustard bran, sugar, garlic powder, vegetable protein (hydrolyzed corn, soy and wheat), caramel color, extractives of paprika, soy lecithin, turmeric (color), calcium disodium EDTA (protect flavor). CONTAINS: WHEAT, EGG AND SOY
 
PKM said:
Soybean oil, pickle relish [diced pickles, high fructose corn syrup, sugar, vinegar, corn syrup, salt, calcium chloride, xanthan gum, potassium sorbate (preservative), spice extractives, polysorbate 80], distilled vinegar, water, egg yolks, high fructose corn syrup, onion powder, mustard seed, salt, spices, propylene glycol alginate, sodium benzoate (preservative), mustard bran, sugar, garlic powder, vegetable protein (hydrolyzed corn, soy and wheat), caramel color, extractives of paprika, soy lecithin, turmeric (color), calcium disodium EDTA (protect flavor). CONTAINS: WHEAT, EGG AND SOY
Click to expand...

You are a wealth of knowledge.

Was there really a crash in Roswell, NM? Do you think you could take a look at a few of my other questions when time permits.
 
klockdoc said:
Just a thought for you RascalDoc. I have been using a similar system to SAM and didn't know it over the past 7 years. I had been using this mainly for combinations, but, extended it into shots making.

I placed my cue stick at the contact point on the object ball and then I would drag it back to approximate 1/2 distance of a ghost ball (1 1/8 inches). Then turned the cue stick towards the cue ball and this would become my aim point on the object ball.

Once I got my aim points, I saw the similarities in all shots and didn't have to do this anymore.

My suggestion to you, is, print out the SAM diagrams or as you stated, these might be the ones you have. Go back to the pool room. Set up ghost balls with object balls in the same positions as in the diagrams. Take your cue ball back about 2 foot and aim at the ghost ball and get the feel for the aim points. I think once you see this, you will understand the system better.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Doc, but that's the ghost ball method, and it's pretty different from SAM.

pj
chgo
 
the other Doc

Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry, Doc, but that's the ghost ball method, and it's pretty different from SAM.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Yeah I got that Patrick. And as I stated, when I tried using quarters and halves I got lost.

As a side benefit though, all the reading I have been doing on this, has improved my concentration on the spots on both balls when I aim, and my shot making % in general has gone up as has my control.
 
RascalDoc said:
Yeah I got that Patrick. And as I stated, when I tried using quarters and halves I got lost.

As a side benefit though, all the reading I have been doing on this, has improved my concentration on the spots on both balls when I aim, and my shot making % in general has gone up as has my control.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've had the same experience doing my spin tests. I found out I was hitting sidespin shots a little better (getting more spin) to the right than to the left (I'm left handed). But as I started measuring where I was actually hitting the ball my left spin got as good as my right spin. I think it was a "view" thing: I couldn't see as well where I was hitting the ball on the left side.

Funny how these things can all work together to improve your game if you keep trying.

pj
chgo
 
pdcue said:
Yeah, but what does he know - other than how to be the
best player in the world for a decade or so?

Simple answer - these 'few aim point' systems work fine as
_descriptive_, the problem arises when proponents think
they can be _proscriptive_

Dale<the proof is out there if you just look it up>
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are trying to state... does no good in the search for contact points or finding the Hal's aiming system online.

I didn't know Hal was the best players in the world for 10 years and I don't think the problem is with promoters of an aiming system thinking they can criticize sytems.

I do know that my fav snooker player (Steve Davis) made a video that I bought years ago. He gave a great example of where to hit the ball. The only problem is finding the part of the cueball to aim or make contact with the object ball. Every beginner can point to the object straight into the pocket and find the OB contact point. Ask that same beginner to point at the CB contact point!!! You will see the problem with aiming. The other problem is most of us are not naturally gifted in the sport we like. The pro's are and that is the difference. This sport looks easy and seems easy until you strive for the next level.
 
Update from Hal

Hal called me yesterday to c how I was making out. I asked if he got the forwards I sent to him from those interested in learning his system. He said it is just too difficult to try to teach his system over the phone. If anyone is interested, u will have to visit him at home. As I recall, someone posted his AZ name earlier in this thread. They also gave his location which is near Allentown PA. U can PM him or simply start a thread using his name.

Best of luck to all

Charlie
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Not sure what you are trying to state... does no good in the search for contact points or finding the Hal's aiming system online.

I didn't know Hal was the best players in the world for 10 years and I don't think the problem is with promoters of an aiming system thinking they can criticize sytems.

I do know that my fav snooker player (Steve Davis) made a video that I bought years ago. He gave a great example of where to hit the ball. The only problem is finding the part of the cueball to aim or make contact with the object ball. Every beginner can point to the object straight into the pocket and find the OB contact point. Ask that same beginner to point at the CB contact point!!! You will see the problem with aiming. The other problem is most of us are not naturally gifted in the sport we like. The pro's are and that is the difference. This sport looks easy and seems easy until you strive for the next level.
Click to expand...

Preaching to the choir?

Jason, I'm guessing you didn't read any of my other
posts<in a few threads> about the subject of aiming.

If you had done so I am confident you would have reconized my
briliant sarcastic wit and realized the "he" I was refering to was,
in point of fact, Steve Davis, not Hal.

FWIW - we share favs, you prolly know better than I how long Steve dominated Snooker.

proscriptive vs descriptive:
telling how to accomplish a task vs describing how a task was accomplished.

The dreaded CB contact point:
I just never had all that much trouble 'seeing' it.
Perhaps I am better at visualization than the average bear.

I had a method that worked well for me as I was learning,
but, as I have said before, the whole process is now so
internalized for me that I just look at the OB and
'say' - hit it there<there being a visulaized point on the OB>

the 'look it up' was a sly lefthander to all the Houleies who keep
telling people 'it works' just go find the info' but never how, or where
other than on planet HH. I thought the vaguely 'X File' phrasing was
a nice touch.

Dale<who might just be too clever by half>

ps Is the Steve Davis video still avail?
 
Last edited:
Pool

Flex said:
Does Hal's system work when shooting with english, when powering the cue ball, when shooting with power draw, and so on?

If so, does he teach a method for compensating for throw and so on?



YES, DO YOU ?

HAL
Click to expand...
 
"Try Snooker - The Champion's Way - With Steve" is the name of the video. Search amazon... Next time I read your post I will know to think out side the rails. Perfectly clear now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top