My way......

D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
 
I don't think a new player would actually know what they did wrong without some formal instruction.
Set up an easy shot... if they miss they wouldn't have a clue. They need to be taught fundamentals.

They also should be taught correct aiming techniques. Aiming involves more than just hit and hope.

.
 
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duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

Is this still just a theory, or have you tested it? If so, what were the results of the students progress?
 
You don't know what you don't know. Some "tried and true" fundamental aspects should be established.
Otherwise, the trial and error approach could take years.
 
This is close to a constructivist approach to learning, so there is definitely merit to the idea. But depending on how green the student is, they may require a bit more support and guidance. Remember, a proper stance may feel a bit awkward for a brand new player given that a pool stance is inherently unnatural comparatively speaking.
 
British people learning the game do not ask about aiming, doesn't occur to them. Trial, error, practice, refinement.

Aiming is purely an American phenomenon. And we all know where Americans stand in the pantheon of greatness, don't we?
 
duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of aiming systems either...That being said, for a beginner I would definitely teach him the back of ball system for aiming. The reason is that this system gives someone a clear target to aim his stick at. That means that he'll be less likely to steer shots or spin some in, while shooting others straight etc...The aiming is merely something that goes on while training his stroke, with the back of ball aiming. You can forget about the object ball more or less and just concentrate on delivering the cue smooth and straight to a point, and you will learn to see the angles naturally with a few fixed angles for reference (full, 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4). With other systems or with no system at all there is a lot of anxiety in the beginning, lots of steering, jerking the stroke, spinning ballls in unnecessarily etc..All of those bad habits can take years to get rid of, some never do.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I'm not a big fan of aiming systems either...That being said, for a beginner I would definitely teach him the back of ball system for aiming. The reason is that this system gives someone a clear target to aim his stick at. That means that he'll be less likely to steer shots or spin some in, while shooting others straight etc...The aiming is merely something that goes on while training his stroke, with the back of ball aiming. You can forget about the object ball more or less and just concentrate on delivering the cue smooth and straight to a point, and you will learn to see the angles naturally with a few fixed angles for reference (full, 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4). With other systems or with no system at all there is a lot of anxiety in the beginning, lots of steering, jerking the stroke, spinning ballls in unnecessarily etc..All of those bad habits can take years to get rid of, some never do.
Click to expand...

My thoughts also. Some players who've changed thier stroke might revert back to bad habits under pressure.
New players should be taught fundimentals first. By playing incorrectly for years some flaws will be ingrained.

.
 
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Ron Swanson said:
British people learning the game do not ask about aiming, doesn't occur to them. Trial, error, practice, refinement.

Aiming is purely an American phenomenon. And we all know where Americans stand in the pantheon of greatness, don't we?
Click to expand...

The best ever?

Forget about our pool accomplishments, since those speak for themselves (most World Titles of all-time), but we were also cleaning up 3 cushion world titles when it was the world cue sport, with big prize money and national pride on the line. Read how Harold Worst had dinner with the Perons after winning the 3 cushion title in Argentina and then had to be escorted out of the country by armed guard, while Joe Davis was making 40.00 playing snewka.,

Davis's interests shifted to snooker and he helped to organise the first snooker world championship in 1927 and won the tournament by beating Tom Dennis, for which he won UK£6
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lmao!

We even won one of those silly English 8 ball World Championships without really even trying.

Consider your British brethren lucky snewka never caught on here, or we'd dominate it, just like golf. You Brits thought your Vardons and the like were unbeatable and British dominance in golf would continue forever. Then your much superior cousins got interested in the game and that was all she wrote.
 
duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

So in other words, you wouldn't teach them anything. The purpose of teaching is to instill proper fundamentals. If everyone generates their own methods, what are you teaching? You think people are successful getting to a very high level of play just hitting balls around?
 
I was into martial arts a long, long time ago. I've always been interested in the mind, body, spirit aspect. I draw a lot from training practices used into what I do.

I read that sometimes in teaching akido that no words are used to explain the moves being taught. The instructor shows the move and it is up to the student to figure it out. The logic is that words are too limited in meaning to fully express what is needed to do the moves. That the student would be more focus on the words on how to do something instead of focusing in the doing.

I learn best from watching then doing. I don't need words. This leaves me free from others words, which may or may not be explaining accurately what is going on.

There are no words I can use to explain what I see or how I see it. There are no words that can explain how I know to stroke on this or that shot. There are no words to explain how I know I'm in the right stance for a shot. These things I do know from doing, not from hearing others words and then trying to follow those words in the doing.
 
duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

I don't think beginners should be allowed to try to pocket a ball until they have reached a point where they can consistently direct the CB exactly where they want it to go. Work on stance and stroke and the aiming will take care of itself when it comes time to learn pocketing. The angles involved in aiming are pretty clear to just about anybody after a short while, but if you can't get yourself aligned to the correct shot line and/or have a crooked stroke, you will be hard pressed to explain why you missed.
 
duckie said:
I was into martial arts a long, long time ago. I've always been interested in the mind, body, spirit aspect. I draw a lot from training practices used into what I do.

I read that sometimes in teaching akido that no words are used to explain the moves being taught. The instructor shows the move and it is up to the student to figure it out. The logic is that words are too limited in meaning to fully express what is needed to do the moves. That the student would be more focus on the words on how to do something instead of focusing in the doing.

I learn best from watching then doing. I don't need words. This leaves me free from others words, which may or may not be explaining accurately what is going on.

There are no words I can use to explain what I see or how I see it. There are no words that can explain how I know to stroke on this or that shot. There are no words to explain how I know I'm in the right stance for a shot. These things I do know from doing, not from hearing others words and then trying to follow those words in the doing.
Click to expand...

Why do you always give CJ such a hard time?

Sounds like you two should be best buds.
 
Work to an Extent

duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

I think your way works to an extent.

People need to experience the game naturally just as they see it at first and then they need to test what they are able to do just by themselves.

Later on down the road they start to see their limitations and that is when you start talking to them about how to improve and create great fundamentals. I don't think there is anything worse than someone interrupting the natural flow when a person wants to play because they are interested.

Then you can bring them in a tweak at a time without making it too hard for them to make changes, each tweak should be getting them closer to the right path and it will.
 
duckie said:
Here is how I would instruct someone on aiming.

I would not mentioned one thing about any aiming system. Not contact point, not contact patch, not fractional and so on. It would be as if those did not exist. The reason for this the difference in what people do with the shot picture in their minds eye. I want the player to discover aiming in a pure way, natural if you will, by trail and error. If they are serious, they will end up using one of those methods without ever being told about them. It will just come to them from well design practice sessions.

I would use my past experiences at the table to set up shots to make. Easy ones at first of course.

I would than have them shoot it. If they miss, I'd ask them why. I'd set the shot up again and repeat.

I would just ask questions from what I observe. Did you feel comfortable in the stance? How the the stroke feel? Could you of stroked it different and so on. What could you have done different to make that shot? Then set the shot up and repeat. The shots will get tougher over time of course.

The point is to guide the player in discovering his own style of play. To develop what is working for them. Not to preach a certain style, technique, method and so on. To guide someone, you must put aside what works for you and focus solely on what works for them. Design practice sessions to eliminate weakness.
Click to expand...

Awesome, that information is very helpful. I am sure you would produce many champions. ;-)
 
You are a pathetic little man. You have no useful purpose here. You just stir the shit up. You have no ability to think on your own.

And those that welcomed you back......well...there is no accounting for taste.

You are just a keyboard warrior.....a useless one at that.

I really have my doubts about this forum when they let the likes you back on here. You add nothing regardless what you think.

And yes CTE sucks despite what you and the other koolaid drinkers think.

The only thing that matters is practice........a well structured practice is what makes people improve and that is what my way is about....better practice.

But you...and others are just clueless about this. It all the system or the pivot or the stroke or the tip.

And all are wrong. Its practice. A well structured practice that gets a person to the top.

Go ahead a reply with your usual bullshit rant. It just shows how much of a loser you really are.
 
Ron Swanson said:
British people learning the game do not ask about aiming, doesn't occur to them. Trial, error, practice, refinement.

Aiming is purely an American phenomenon. And we all know where Americans stand in the pantheon of greatness, don't we?
Click to expand...

Refinement of what?

randyg
 
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