My Wife Could Go Pro

the difference is numbers

Danktrees said:
the best women players can easily play against the men, but since they both have different tours it makes things difficult. i dunno if anyone saw black widow vs. the magician, but jeanette lee played efren in phillipines once. she lost but then again efren is arguably the best player to have ever lived. she managed to get some racks on him so it was a good showing. point is i think some of the women can easily compete with the men.
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there is no question that the top 20 female players are great players, and there is no reason for woman not to play as good as men, but for the top 20 woman there are at least a 1000 men who play that speed, and another 10000 who play just below it. and the opinion that the match on the link is bad is completely on target, that was terrible! they shot balls into the rails! i do Know Bonnie and i know she plays better than that(much better), but the match was terrible! furthermore anyone who can make a ball has a chance to win a match on the spirit tour, because there are always 10 players at each tourney that are subject to miss ball in hand!
 
belmicah said:
I think the top ten women are far and away better than the bottom 95%. Hell, Xiao-Ting Pan, Jasmin, Karen, and Allison could compete with the men. They would probably be somewhere near low to middle men pro players.
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....like who? that's a very vague reference. for instance, our very own steve lipsky is a great player yet certainly not top 30(that's elite), and he SPANKED allison fisher at amsterdam. the elite women are very good, but they're on top for two reasons,,,,equal parts their talent/the rest of the pack dogging a shot.
 
amen

bruin70 said:
....like who? that's a very vague reference. for instance, our very own steve lipsky is a great player yet certainly not top 30(that's elite), and he SPANKED allison fisher at amsterdam. the elite women are very good, but they're on top for two reasons,,,,equal parts their talent/the rest of the pack dogging a shot.
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amen, you made the point in so many less words than i did
 
allison is the best player on their tour , and dominated womans snooker before that, but what most of you don't know is she tried the mens snooker tour, and the best she ranked was in the 300's, and she's been drilled for the cash by a few shortstop male players!
 
chicks

i used to play a low level wpa player when i lived in new york. she had a rich boyfriend that sponsored her to play. she played runout nineball 3 days a week. she played very decent nineball but that was it. she usually went 1 and done in the wpa events. i dont know how well your wife plays but i think its alot more competitive than that match showed.
 
instroke75 said:
allison,,,,,,,,,,,,most of you don't know is she tried the mens snooker tour, and the best she ranked was in the 300's,,,,!
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i was going to mention that. the women are fully capable, but so is any A+ player on a good day. that's 9ball.
 
ballmover said:
i used to play a low level wpa player when i lived in new york. she had a rich boyfriend that sponsored her to play. she played runout nineball 3 days a week. she played very decent nineball but that was it. she usually went 1 and done in the wpa events. i dont know how well your wife plays but i think its alot more competitive than that match showed.
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You're talking about Ellie Chang? You're not Chris N. are you?
 
When the IPT was up and running we were treated to a short preview of how the women vs men competition was playing out. I dont think it came as a big surprise to anyone that the womens best couldn't consistently beat the men's best. Their were a few upsets, but on an overall basis the men dominated the IPT. I think if the IPT had continued and the women were exposed to alot better players than they are used to some would have made the top 50 and maybe the top 20 in years to come. With so many men against so few women is it a fair assumption to make that women will never be able to compete at a mans level...I choose to think its an unfair assumption. Just another opinion.
 
ccn7 said:
When the IPT,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont think it came as a big surprise to anyone that the womens best couldn't consistently beat the men's best. Their were a few upsets, but on an overall basis the men dominated the IPT. ..............
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that's it right there.
 
smokeandapancak said:
Really .... a law , JohnnyT?
Pool is one of those things that I dont see why there is a diferent leauge... like chess... there isnt a real physcal asspect to the game .. so why the difference?
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i have wondered that for years, why men and women dont play thesame speed. strength isnt really important, Efren isnt going to win any strongman competitions. it must be something in the muscle tissue thats different in men and thats a pretty bad guess.
 
Fatboy said:
i have wondered that for years, why men and women dont play thesame speed. strength isnt really important, Efren isnt going to win any strongman competitions. it must be something in the muscle tissue thats different in men and thats a pretty bad guess.
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Most women think different than men. JMO. Johnnyt
 
The only reason that the top women can't compete with the top men is because there are fewer of them.

Using the IPT as an example there were what 10 women against 190 guys? As it was however they did pretty good and showed that they can definitely hang with the guys at least as well as most of the field.

Once we get to a point where women are playing in the same numbers with the same intensity then you will see that the top players in the world will be a mix of women and men.

Mass makes class. Kelly Fisher regularly beats the 9 and 10 ball ghost on a tight table. So do hundreds of guys at shortstop speed. If Kelly played on the Joss Tour like Karen does I think she would have similar results as Karen or maybe even more wins. She has the type of talent to learn and adapt quickly. Let there be another couple hundred Kelly Fishers in the world and you will have five or ten women that are Johnny Archer's speed.

None of the pro players ever liked to draw Jean Balukas for example. I don't think anyone on the Joss Tour likes to see themselves opposite of Karen Corr. Granted these ladies are the elite for their gender but it goes to show that they can hang.

Allison won the only SouthEast Tour stop she ever entered, beating Tommy Kennedy among others.

The UPA doesn't allow women, although it once billed itself as the organization for pro players with no mention of gender. I think they ought to welcome women.

Because the women as a group are much weaker than the men as a group they should retain the right to play in their own league AND have the opportunity to compete with the men as well in the UPA.

Why? Because the men represent the pinnacle of pool skill. It would be unfair to allow them to compete in a lower class. Just as I am not allowed to rob tournaments for c/d players the men should not be allowed to compete in the women's league because the average is so much lower. But there should always be opportunity for a player of any gender to move up in class or try to.

For example, the UPA could hold qualifiers and let anyone in who qualifies. Thus a qualificant has "earned" the spot, much as Jasmin Ouschan did by winning an IPT qualifier against a male field.

As it stands right now the UPA will allow any player with testicles regardless of actual ability to play in their events. But they deny women the opportunity to compete. At least the IPT had that part right by allowing the women to compete equally.

As far as gambling goes. The women just aren't that into it. Some are but most aren't. Kelly could go to Derby City and clean up getting weight from shortstops and champions alike. If she had the right person to steer her she could travel across the country and back and book a LOT of winners. Now before you go off and tell me to put up or shut up, she's not into it. That's my point. Honestly, how often do you hear about Johhny Archer matching up these days? Not very much. A lot of pros just want to be professional players not gladiators. For the same reason you don't see Rusty Wallace out racing for pink slips.

So while a lot of folks want to point to gambling as the litmus test I don't think it applies totally if one person is not really the type and the other is. Ralf Souquet is a good example of a player who does not gamble but his talent is without question. It is very likely that a decent shortstop would beat Ralf in a gambling session for no other reason than the shortstop is a diehard, play-for-20 hours warrior and Ralf is not.

So anyway that's my take on the subject. What was the subject again?

Oh yeah, my wife could go pro........... put her in some qualifiers. One thing the WPBA does do is have an excellent system for making it to the pros. No one gets in who doesn't qualify and no one gets pro status who doesn't perform decently on tour. There are many regional qualifiers out there. Beware though that there are plenty of strong ladies traveling the country vying for those spots. Your wife is going to have to be a runout player to have a chance at all.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The only thing that this match illustrates is that perhaps production firms should be slightly more selective on the players/matches they choose to represent their business and our sport.
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We arrive at a tournament to cover the final three matches--the hot-seat semi, the one-loss semi, and the final. Fate determines who gets there and how they play. Our aim is to show the sport as it is, not as I or anyone else would like it to be.
 
John Barton said:
The only reason that the top women can't compete with the top men is because there are fewer of them.

Using the IPT as an example there were what 10 women against 190 guys? As it was however they did pretty good and showed that they can definitely hang with the guys at least as well as most of the field.

Once we get to a point where women are playing in the same numbers with the same intensity then you will see that the top players in the world will be a mix of women and men.

Mass makes class. Kelly Fisher regularly beats the 9 and 10 ball ghost on a tight table. So do hundreds of guys at shortstop speed. If Kelly played on the Joss Tour like Karen does I think she would have similar results as Karen or maybe even more wins. She has the type of talent to learn and adapt quickly. Let there be another couple hundred Kelly Fishers in the world and you will have five or ten women that are Johnny Archer's speed.

None of the pro players ever liked to draw Jean Balukas for example. I don't think anyone on the Joss Tour likes to see themselves opposite of Karen Corr. Granted these ladies are the elite for their gender but it goes to show that they can hang.

Allison won the only SouthEast Tour stop she ever entered, beating Tommy Kennedy among others.

The UPA doesn't allow women, although it once billed itself as the organization for pro players with no mention of gender. I think they ought to welcome women.

Because the women as a group are much weaker than the men as a group they should retain the right to play in their own league AND have the opportunity to compete with the men as well in the UPA.

Why? Because the men represent the pinnacle of pool skill. It would be unfair to allow them to compete in a lower class. Just as I am not allowed to rob tournaments for c/d players the men should not be allowed to compete in the women's league because the average is so much lower. But there should always be opportunity for a player of any gender to move up in class or try to.

For example, the UPA could hold qualifiers and let anyone in who qualifies. Thus a qualificant has "earned" the spot, much as Jasmin Ouschan did by winning an IPT qualifier against a male field.

As it stands right now the UPA will allow any player with testicles regardless of actual ability to play in their events. But they deny women the opportunity to compete. At least the IPT had that part right by allowing the women to compete equally.

As far as gambling goes. The women just aren't that into it. Some are but most aren't. Kelly could go to Derby City and clean up getting weight from shortstops and champions alike. If she had the right person to steer her she could travel across the country and back and book a LOT of winners. Now before you go off and tell me to put up or shut up, she's not into it. That's my point. Honestly, how often do you hear about Johhny Archer matching up these days? Not very much. A lot of pros just want to be professional players not gladiators. For the same reason you don't see Rusty Wallace out racing for pink slips.

So while a lot of folks want to point to gambling as the litmus test I don't think it applies totally if one person is not really the type and the other is. Ralf Souquet is a good example of a player who does not gamble but his talent is without question. It is very likely that a decent shortstop would beat Ralf in a gambling session for no other reason than the shortstop is a diehard, play-for-20 hours warrior and Ralf is not.

So anyway that's my take on the subject. What was the subject again?

Oh yeah, my wife could go pro........... put her in some qualifiers. One thing the WPBA does do is have an excellent system for making it to the pros. No one gets in who doesn't qualify and no one gets pro status who doesn't perform decently on tour. There are many regional qualifiers out there. Beware though that there are plenty of strong ladies traveling the country vying for those spots. Your wife is going to have to be a runout player to have a chance at all.
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Very well written and I agree with all of it. Johnnyt
 
A woman could be trained to be at the level of the mens division. But with the women's tour why would they want to spend that much time practicing.

Yea im pushing it with this remark...

They could make enough money without winning the tours being on the road as a "hustler."

I love the expressions in billiards.
 
I know a could of local girls who'd be able to win a few matches in the Spirit, Hunter, and other regional ladies tournaments.

But I dont see them going to these tournaments, because they either dont have the money or dont think they have a chance.

Now, since a fe people got a bit off subject, yes we also have several local guys, who'd spank probably 90% of the girls who play in the regional tournaments. And they are probably no better than a B to A- player.
 
BackPocket9Ball said:
I've played against and know quite a few women pros. The top 10 in general have the talent to run over 100 balls in straight pool. The women from 10th through 20th can probably run around 75. And the women from 21st through 40th in general have the talent to run around 50 balls.

This is a quick, easy, and granted, over-simplified way, in which your wife can see if she measures up.

I think Jude might agree with me on these numbers.
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Yeah, I think that's a fairly accurate statement. I mean, I'm not a straight pool expert and unfortunately, many women's professionals aren't either which says more about the current state of our sport than it does about their tour. I was at the U.S. Open Straight Pool in 2000 and Fisher had the high-run at 60 (I believe) yet the games were only to 100 from what I remember so there wasn't much runway to take-off.

I'm confident that if Fisher actually played straight pool as often as she plays 9-ball, she'd be remarkable. Jeanette Lee's biggest asset in pool is her creativity and that really reaps big rewards in straight pool (which is undeniably her best game). I was also witness to a 114 run by Line Korshvek (sp?) back in 2002 the day after the Women's Fall Classic at Amsterdam Billiards (East) and she was ranked 10 through 20 at the time. Steve Lipsky was also witness and his comment afterward was, "She ran 'em right."
 
Jorge Torres said:
We arrive at a tournament to cover the final three matches--the hot-seat semi, the one-loss semi, and the final. Fate determines who gets there and how they play. Our aim is to show the sport as it is, not as I or anyone else would like it to be.
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Newspapers deliver the news as-is. If you want to treat DVD sales like news, hey go right ahead. It's your business. However, everybody looks at the news and gives their opinion and that opinion isn't necessarily going to be positive (and newspapers are okay with that). Perhaps you're on to something. Perhaps there's a huge market out there for this. I don't think so but I'm not in the business of selling DVDs either.
 
cigardave said:
That... and their boobs get in the way. :)
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Lol.....Dave, I have had that happen once or twice. :rolleyes: ;)


One thing I think that is being overlooked here is this....there are many in the lower 80% of the ranks of the WPBA who are pretty darn fine shooters, with the skill to compete with those in the top 20%...however, that skill will only take you so far if you fall apart under the tremendous pressure that playing at that level entails. If you cannot handle that kind of pressure, the wheels tend to come off the cart rather quickly.

Lisa
 
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