Napa national payout issue

[akerr1982]

Well for one thing, I don't work for NAPA. I work for NAPA Stream TV which is owned and operated through OSPN. But just because you have run tournaments before doesn't mean that you can take 10 days and run 30 individual tournaments as well as over 1000 participants successfully with minimal disruptions like this one has been. Obviously you are living your "thread barking" through just what you have heard from other people and it doesn't give you the right to bash what you don't have the facts about.
So when you get it through your thick head what you're griping about when you weren't even here, then you can talk.

 

[zpele]

Well for one thing, I don't work for NAPA. I work for NAPA Stream TV which is owned and operated through OSPN. But just because you have run tournaments before doesn't mean that you can take 10 days and run 30 individual tournaments as well as over 1000 participants successfully with minimal disruptions like this one has been. Obviously you are living your "thread barking" through just what you have heard from other people and it doesn't give you the right to bash what you don't have the facts about.
So when you get it through your thick head what you're griping about when you weren't even here, then you can talk.

I'm not sure if this is River but try not to take offense to this thread. I was at nationals and thought they ran the tournaments well. My problem was never anything to do with that aspect but when the league owners are staying in the penthouse and the venue caters to rich people (which pool players are not usually) it raises some questions that need to be answered.

It was a national event and every other National event that I know of has money added. When a mini tournament pays out more than the National boards there is a problem as was the case yesterday.

 

[Banks]

Well to address the offering up Vegas or Atlantic City...a league this new does not have the participation level to generously offer a venue or city such as those. Plus just to get the venue itself is a couple hundred thousand. So when the league grows which it is and becomes more successful then they will have the opportunity to offer great events in great venues such as those. I don't know much about the payout structure that was finalized which I have heard people saying that last year was a little better with the gap between 1st & 2nd but people NEED to understand that they ARE NOT paying any coin drop or an entry fee. Just a greens fee tournament such as this really doesn't have to bad of a payout for what your getting. So any added money type of tourney can't be done.

To correct the top thread here, the greens fee basically was your entry fee, one time payment, and only 5 taken out for admin fee. Running these tourneys aren't free so taking 5 out of 45 making a 40 greens fee is pretty good at a decent payout for the novice players and some intermediate players that do not ever have a chance at some sort of National title.

I'm sorry, but saying it's their national tournament, paying $500 or $550 to first or whatever, with a $45 buy-in and telling people that it's free money because it's a $5 "admin" charge and $40 "green fee" is a bit ridiculous. Okay, maybe very ridiculous.

They could've had a few 32-person tournaments at $45 a piece in a pool hall and had it pay more, without people spending big bucks on travel or vacation time.

Didn't they make a big deal about telling people how much money was going back to players and so on when they started? Correct me if I'm wrong, but either somebody wasn't paying attention when they set up this tournament or.. well, or I don't know.

 

[lorider]

I'm not sure if this is River but try not to take offense to this thread. I was at nationals and thought they ran the tournaments well. My problem was never anything to do with that aspect but when the league owners are staying in the penthouse and the venue caters to rich people (which pool players are not usually) it raises some questions that need to be answered.

It was a national event and every other National event that I know of has money added. When a mini tournament pays out more than the National boards there is a problem as was the case yesterday.

i dont agree with akerr entirely but i can see his points. yes napa is a small league and being newer than more established leagues has some learning to do.

maybe they oughta have a yearly fee like other leagues to help cover the payouts at nationals. nah....then most every one would be complaining bout that lol.

 

[Wright Shot]

What's bigger, TAP or NAPA?

 

[Rain-Man]

I'm glad I decided not to go now.. I really liked the format we played here for NAPA, but the payout structure seems terrible for a national tournament...

 

[GoBilliards]

The Masters /Grand masters 9ball paid $360.00 for first. They advertised $125,000 Purse. There should be an investigation sir. all the name calling aside.

 

[GoBilliards]

What's bigger, TAP or NAPA?

Napa considers you a member if you have ever played 1 match in the league lifetime. So it's hard to compare apples to apples. Napa has never had more than 600 players at the national event. Tap has had thousands at the super billiards expo. All I know from my own experience.

 

[capt15642]

NAPA Nationals

It was no secret that the $40 was in fact the prize fund not the greens fees. When the posted the payouts for a given amount of players and multiple it by 40 that it was the amount for that given prize fund. I like NAPA league a lot the handicap system and the rules are great. However the this year they took two steps back after this years nationals. First off greens fee's the league is taking are weekly dues every week and surely can afford to have the tables there since there is no national prize fund. We were told that there would be diamond tables there and there were valleys. The location was too expensive majority of players could not afford it. Last years nationals I got a room for $45 a night and they had diamond tables and there were also pro events going on at the same time. It would not kill the league to add a little money to the prize fund and have a better venue to help grow this league. This league is fun but the may have lost a lot of players this year due to nationals. I love the live streams, they players, and the handicap system I did not play a single player who I thought was out of line I did see a couple of questionable people in the B player group.I would say 95% of the players handicaps I saw were legit which is rare in pool leagues today. I played in the A player group and finished 25th - 32nd and did not win anything which is fine but the winner of the A players only got a $1000 (8ball singles). TAP if you won singles with the about the same amount of players would be around $2500. This league better get it shit together starting at the top or it will soon be a thing of the past.

 

[u12armresl]

One post you put up says NO entry fee, this one says that the greens fee was your entry fee.

In a post by another person it was mentioned there were 100 people in the 9 ball.

I've run tournaments bigger than that, and it ran very smoothly. In fact I did it a few times a year.

Pool players gripe if it is a small bar tournament with no money added, or a million added. It's the nature of the beast.

To correct the top thread here, the greens fee basically was your entry fee, one time payment, and only 5 taken out for admin fee. Running these tourneys aren't free so taking 5 out of 45 making a 40 greens fee is pretty good at a decent payout for the novice players and some intermediate players that do not ever have a chance at some sort of National title.

 

[akerr1982]

I'm not sure if this is River but try not to take offense to this thread. I was at nationals and thought they ran the tournaments well. My problem was never anything to do with that aspect but when the league owners are staying in the penthouse and the venue caters to rich people (which pool players are not usually) it raises some questions that need to be answered.

It was a national event and every other National event that I know of has money added. When a mini tournament pays out more than the National boards there is a problem as was the case yesterday.

How can you say that every other National event has money added when I know for a fact the APA adds $000000 to the national events, hell even regional and local events most of the time. As well the BCA adds cold hard $0 dollars to their events as well.

 

[akerr1982]

i dont agree with akerr entirely but i can see his points. yes napa is a small league and being newer than more established leagues has some learning to do.

maybe they oughta have a yearly fee like other leagues to help cover the payouts at nationals. nah....then most every one would be complaining bout that lol.

That's what NAPA is not trying to be is selling out to the fact of charging a yearly sanction fee. They are striving to keep it a no-sanction fee league and i think that's what discourages some players from the other leagues in my opinion. The only reason I play BCA is to compete in our state tournaments. I could give a rats 'butt' about going to Vegas then possibly winning whatever event and then being considered a master or grandmaster when I would never be able to compete at the level that some of these players strive to be.

 

[GoBilliards]

We should get the "money added" Phrase out of this conversation. The $.50 rake from every match all year long is where the $125,000.00 was coming from. The $40.00 was for the tables. It really doesn't matter if it's "added" or "subtracted" or any other BS term. Fact is advertising $125K and paying 12,000 to 30,000 instead is not a sustainable plan.

 

[zpele]

How can you say that every other National event has money added when I know for a fact the APA adds $000000 to the national events, hell even regional and local events most of the time. As well the BCA adds cold hard $0 dollars to their events as well.

Now you sound like you don't know what you are talking about... When you qualify to APA you don't pay to enter the tournament. I have personally been to both single and team nationals for APA and neither had a prize fund that was made up of any entry fees by players.

Now you might argue that you pay ~$20 to enter a singles qualifier board and that is what they use for the prize fund. This holds no weight because NAPA has qualifier boards for $40 as well. The winner gets qualified but NAPA takes the money as profit (I'm not sure how the money is split between the LO and the league main office).

I can't speak to how the BCA prize fund is done but I'm sure Mark can chime in on that point.

I would recommend that instead of getting defensive about the things in this thread you look at them objectively and really think before speaking in hard cold facts that you have no proof but hearsay to back up.

To give you the benefit of the doubt please provide the facts you are hinting at when you say 'know for a fact the APA adds $000000 to the national events.'

 

[akerr1982]

The Masters /Grand masters 9ball paid $360.00 for first. They advertised $125,000 Purse. There should be an investigation sir. all the name calling aside.

Well if you guys can read the fine print, which some people tend not to. The asterisk that was besides that big advertisement of '$125,000' purse said that the purse of that much was based on participation levels and the goal was not met to be able to hold up to that purse prize. If we had everybody that qualified through all of their divisions, all 8,000+ of them, they could honor that purse prize, more then likely triple it. So until the participation levels start rising, nobody has any say in how they structure the fees that are assessed to the player to be here.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Now you sound like you don't know what you are talking about... When you qualify to APA you don't pay to enter the tournament. I have personally been to both single and team nationals for APA and neither had a prize fund that was made up of any entry fees by players.

Now you might argue that you pay ~$20 to enter a singles qualifier board and that is what they use for the prize fund. This holds no weight because NAPA has qualifier boards for $40 as well. The winner gets qualified but NAPA takes the money as profit (I'm not sure how the money is split between the LO and the league main office).

I can't speak to how the BCA prize fund is done but I'm sure Mark can chime in on that point.

I would recommend that instead of getting defensive about the things in this thread you look at them objectively and really think before speaking in hard cold facts that you have no proof but hearsay to back up.

To give you the benefit of the doubt please provide the facts you are hinting at when you say 'know for a fact the APA adds $000000 to the national events.'

When you go to Vegas for APA, there IS an entry fee. It is usually paid by your league operator before you get there.

 

[zpele]

When you go to Vegas for APA, there IS an entry fee. It is usually paid by your league operator before you get there.

Well I apologize for not knowing that and admit to being wrong. That being said the prize fund is not made up solely of the registration fees. There is no way they have a $15k prize fund for each bracket at singles made up exclusively from registration fees when some of the brackets have no where near enough people qualified to come close to that number.

 

[GoBilliards]

I guess they can't really tell the truth about payouts though. Anyone who would pay $1000+ in travel expenses to win a tournament that pays $360.00 for first is LOCO. If you win all 3 8ball 9ball and 10ball, you can break even for the trip.

 

[akerr1982]

I'm not sure if this is River but try not to take offense to this thread. I was at nationals and thought they ran the tournaments well. My problem was never anything to do with that aspect but when the league owners are staying in the penthouse and the venue caters to rich people (which pool players are not usually) it raises some questions that need to be answered.

It was a national event and every other National event that I know of has money added. When a mini tournament pays out more than the National boards there is a problem as was the case yesterday.

If you think that this league is rich or the league operators are just down here just wasting money, you got another agenda in your head. All LO's have been here helping a ton running the brackets, running mini's, being a ref...etc.

 

[zpele]

If you think that this league is rich or the league operators are just down here just wasting money, you got another agenda in your head. All LO's have been here helping a ton running the brackets, running mini's, being a ref...etc.

I'm beginning to wonder if you are a troll... When someone says LO they generally mean 'League Operators' not 'League Owners.' The league operators all did a great job with the task that was laid on them. When I said the league owners were sitting pretty in the penthouse I was specifically talking about the owner and his family and it was meant more as a sarcastic remark to add to a long list of small issues that added up over the course of the week.

I know Rich (Rick?) and his wife (one of the LOs) lost significant money out of their own pocket while running the minis and I am not even sure if the league paid them back for that.

At last years nationals when Bad Boys ran the tourney it was run better- not due to any lack of effort on the part of those running it but more based on the fact that Bad Boys have much more experience doing this kind of thing.

Stop picking out small things from what I am saying to try and make a case. Look at the big picture from an objective view point.