NAPA or UPA

Hoping to see....

NAPA to take off in a lot of places.

I have been really paying some close attention to areas that currently have these leagues available.

Unfortunately, I don't have the capital it would require to purchase a territory but in a few days, I will be moving to Oxon Hill,MD due to work transfer.

At present and to my knowledge, I don't think that NAPA is available in the northern VA area.

I've had my experiences with APA. Some good. Some bad. Just like everyone else. At this time, I'd rather not return to the APA. I'd like something new and fresh to try. I think NAPA has great potential and might just be that freshness many of us leaguers crave.

Wishing the OP the best of success with whatever his decision ends up being.

FWIW and only 2 cents worth....I think NAPA will be the way to go.
 
Six Shooter said:
NAPA to take off in a lot of places.

I have been really paying some close attention to areas that currently have these leagues available.

Unfortunately, I don't have the capital it would require to purchase a territory but in a few days, I will be moving to Oxon Hill,MD due to work transfer.

At present and to my knowledge, I don't think that NAPA is available in the northern VA area.

I've had my experiences with APA. Some good. Some bad. Just like everyone else. At this time, I'd rather not return to the APA. I'd like something new and fresh to try. I think NAPA has great potential and might just be that freshness many of us leaguers crave.

Wishing the OP the best of success with whatever his decision ends up being.

FWIW and only 2 cents worth....I think NAPA will be the way to go.
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Six Shooter.. Visit the http://www.napaleagues.com site if you are interested owning a territory in the Northern, VA area. It wouldn't hurt to ask or even have the first right to own it.

Zach.
 
Talked with Amy again today and I am going to go with NAPA. I would love to support all of the start up leagues but unfortunately that is not a decision I can financially make.

NAPA looks like it will be a perfect fit for me with what I am looking for and they have the ability to fully back their claims.

It also looks like the wave of the future in the amatuer world so I am excited to see where it will take me.

Thanks for everyone's insights into this matter and I look forward to seeing some of you in the future at league events:)
 
zpele said:
Talked with Amy again today and I am going to go with NAPA. I would love to support all of the start up leagues but unfortunately that is not a decision I can financially make.

NAPA looks like it will be a perfect fit for me with what I am looking for and they have the ability to fully back their claims.

It also looks like the wave of the future in the amatuer world so I am excited to see where it will take me.

Thanks for everyone's insights into this matter and I look forward to seeing some of you in the future at league events:)
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You made a great decision! I'm glad they were able to work out an affordable solution, as they did the same with me when they first entered the market in late 2010.

Welcome to LOCO! :)

Zach
614-750-7665
 
Amateur league options

I would encourage potential league operators or players to contact our office.

We run the BCAPL system - which is a very player friendly program.

We also ave USAPL which is a nationally handicapi system with an 18 year history of proven accuracy.

CSI provides options from the beginner to the professional. We support ALL aspects of pool. I don't believe any other entity has the depth we present.

We are currently in Vegas at our national event - but would love to explain what we offer.

Markg@playcsipool.com
702-719-7665. Office
 
Mark Griffin said:
I would encourage potential league operators or players to contact our office.

We run the BCAPL system - which is a very player friendly program.

We also ave USAPL which is a nationally handicapi system with an 18 year history of proven accuracy.

CSI provides options from the beginner to the professional. We support ALL aspects of pool. I don't believe any other entity has the depth we present.

We are currently in Vegas at our national event - but would love to explain what we offer.

Markg@playcsipool.com
702-719-7665. Office
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To be honest I am not very impressed with the way the BCA is structured or the way the league operator's own nothing. It seems to me that the BCA is more there to 'get a piece of the pie' from the APA.

As previously stated- I am not looking for just another cookie cutter league. I am looking for the next big thing and there is no way I would pay to become a manager in a company. I am looking to become an owner in a profitable franchise program.

I don't mean this statement as an insult. I just wanted to state my opinion. Also, I don't want this thread to turn into an advertisement for other leagues that got overlooked.

I understand this forum has a lot of big names in the pool industry but I would advise making your own thread on the topic if you feel like touting the virtues.
 
zpele said:
To be honest I am not very impressed with the way the BCA is structured or the way the league operator's own nothing. It seems to me that the BCA is more there to 'get a piece of the pie' from the APA.

As previously stated- I am not looking for just another cookie cutter league. I am looking for the next big thing and there is no way I would pay to become a manager in a company. I am looking to become an owner in a profitable franchise program.

I don't mean this statement as an insult. I just wanted to state my opinion. Also, I don't want this thread to turn into an advertisement for other leagues that got overlooked.

I understand this forum has a lot of big names in the pool industry but I would advise making your own thread on the topic if you feel like touting the virtues.
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Easy Boy...... :) But a great statement nonetheless.
 
n0risc said:
Keep in mind The NAPA is not a copy cat league. It is unique, true, adopted form by players for players, and by operators for operators.

The adopted ELO rating system NAPA uses is bar none the least manipulated scoring system ever invented, hence the reason why it's used for the most sophisticated game known to man, Chess.

Zach.
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while i appreciate this info and the info in the other post you made quoting me, napa is not offered in my area. i am sure you're not intending to be hostile but bolding your letters and opening up with the whole copy cat thing is a bit off. i never said any of the leagues copied anything or that any of the systems i play in were perfect.
i will however say the bca is, in my opinion ,the least manipulated scoring system because your handicap doesn't matter. there is no reason to manipulate the system. there is no limit on on the handicaps you can post and a lower handicap means nothing during week to week play or at their national event. therefore there you gain nothing for laying down. that is what i would view as not being able to be manipulated. i am happy the napa uses the system used for chess. good for them. it would make sense it's the least easy to get over on. however, that means there are still ways to do it.
 
zpele said:
Thanks for your input you see some of the problems inherent with both the APA and the BCA. At this time I am more leaning towards the NAPA based on both my research and what I have heard from others.

As far as never making it to nationals in the APA... Just go for the singles. I just got back a few weeks ago from them:)
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i am glad you are narrowing it down. like i said my involvement with upa is too new to really have any opinion, but apa and bca i have played in for a few years each. i believe none of them are perfect for everyone. that is why i said think about the people you are going to ask to play in it. what are some of the things the other people you play with dislike or wish they had? take those things and then choose the one you think fits them the best. that's the only way to make the most people happy. you will never make them all happy, don't ever think you can.
whatever choice you make i wish you well and thank you for doing something to bring more players more choices.
 
jrt30004 said:
while i appreciate this info and the info in the other post you made quoting me, napa is not offered in my area. i am sure you're not intending to be hostile but bolding your letters and opening up with the whole copy cat thing is a bit off. i never said any of the leagues copied anything or that any of the systems i play in were perfect.
i will however say the bca is, in my opinion ,the least manipulated scoring system because your handicap doesn't matter. there is no reason to manipulate the system. there is no limit on on the handicaps you can post and a lower handicap means nothing during week to week play or at their national event. therefore there you gain nothing for laying down. that is what i would view as not being able to be manipulated. i am happy the napa uses the system used for chess. good for them. it would make sense it's the least easy to get over on. however, that means there are still ways to do it.
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Since I feel you took offense to my reply. Let me elaborate a bit further just to clear the waters a bit.

NAPA is offered in any area, unless for specific reasons unknown to me, or the area was abandoned due to legal concerns. I would have no idea. I'm just a NAPA operator, I'm not involved in day-to-day operations.

You're exactly right about the BCA, and the same is true for VNEA. The only thing you gain for laying down in these systems the likelihood of obtaining 1st place in your divisions each session. Teams are awarded more cash, and teams have the ability to compete in upper level tournaments for free. Sounds fair doesn't it? I know this is site specific, and may differ among areas. At least that's how it is here.

Now BCAPL & VNEA has dueled up in many areas. Dual Sanctioning is a great idea. I play myself.

About NAPA. Remember it's an adopted form of the ELO rating system used for Chess. Laying down in NAPA is unprecedented. It just simply doesn't exist.

Zach.
 
Here' my two cents after playing in many leagues over the last 20 years.

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APA treats their players like cattle. Poor handicapping system. Their handicapping system is NOT a handicapping system at all when you compare it to other sports. It's completely inaccurate on all levels. If you took the same handicapping system and applied it to tennis, Peter Sampress would have been a 2. Doesn't make any sense.

Scoring is a set back. Counting balls is like counting chickens....after a while ya just get plain dizzy. Sandbagger friendly.

*

BCA system is not player friendly and too much work for the League Operator. However, their game play rules are great. Handicapping system is much like APA's and it not accurate at all. Sandbagger friendly. Player support is pitiful. You don't get any.

*

TAP scoring is ridiculous, I still don't get it after two years, and their player support gets a -1 on the quality scale. In fact I am not sure that anyone works at the main office anymore. Scoring is sandbagger friendly.

*

UPA - I'm clueless on this one. But looking at their web site says a lot. If their web site is any reflection on the organization of their league I would be concerned. Someone there needs to hire an html developer. Looks like the league was formed at the playground

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VNEA - No idea because I refuse to play on Valley tables. Being forced to play on a particular table is like being forced to use a jump cue as your break stick.

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NAPA is impressive...perhaps ingenious. Supposedly the brainchild of one man, from arkansas of all places. Its run like an ACTUAL federation/association. Much detail goes into the player and not someones pockets. Just take 2 minutes and look at a player page on their web site. You are actually able to see a players entire history and make comparisons on their trends. It's very clear how and why a player moves up and down on their handicap scale. It's a variant of the ELO system which is used by many sporting associations around the world. Not too mention local and national rankings...not just in skill...but performance as well. According to my local LO everything is maintained at their data center. Player support is a +9 and their response time to league issues on league night is amazingly fast. One time we had a foul issue in our 8-ball league, we called the main office at 10:30pm and someone named Amy picked up on the second ring. Problem solved. Sandbagging in this league has no benefit. Simple, effective and allows players to focus on their game and not that darn score sheet. They do not count balls so you won't get dizzy. Very nice. Excellent web site and player search. Player skill levels are very broad from 0 to 100 or more and my local pro players can join in. It's like getting free lessons.

*

Synopsis: NAPA offers the most for your game because it is simply done right and has more attention to the players. It's understandable why there is a new NAPA league popping up on their facebook page practically every hour. If they keep things the same they will be the only game in town in a few years.
 
nOrisc,

What day of the week is NAPA played in the Columbus area? How far east does the league go from Columbus? I play APA in Newark, Oh (about 25 minutes east of New Albany). Want to play in some other leagues..Am a 5 in APA 8-ball but should probably be a 6 (not due to sandbagging though)...but I just started playing again after 4 years...It's sounds like NAPA might be a good league to play in..
 
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Your a bit clueless Hockey

Sorry but this remark is way off base...TAP scoring is ridiculous, I still don't get it after two years, and their player support gets a -1 on the quality scale. In fact I am not sure that anyone works at the main office anymore. Scoring is sandbagger friendly.

I am at extension 2 at TAP's 800 number and you can get me almost anytime at that number or my cell. And what don't you get about the scoring? Completions, misses, safes, Left on table, break and runs and 8 on the breaks among other things. Not rocket science here.

I do all of the sales for TAP and we have grown in the last 2 years or so by adding on average close to two new licensees a month with almost a 100% success rate in recruiting teams and players.
 
n0risc said:
Since I feel you took offense to my reply. Let me elaborate a bit further just to clear the waters a bit.

NAPA is offered in any area, unless for specific reasons unknown to me, or the area was abandoned due to legal concerns. I would have no idea. I'm just a NAPA operator, I'm not involved in day-to-day operations.

You're exactly right about the BCA, and the same is true for VNEA. The only thing you gain for laying down in these systems the likelihood of obtaining 1st place in your divisions each session. Teams are awarded more cash, and teams have the ability to compete in upper level tournaments for free. Sounds fair doesn't it? I know this is site specific, and may differ among areas. At least that's how it is here.

Now BCAPL & VNEA has dueled up in many areas. Dual Sanctioning is a great idea. I play myself.

About NAPA. Remember it's an adopted form of the ELO rating system used for Chess. Laying down in NAPA is unprecedented. It just simply doesn't exist.

Zach.
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i'm trying not to take offense but you are coming across a bit condesending. and i'll give an example. i said napa is not offered in my area. you fire back with what seems to be a condesneding remark about it being offered in every area unless abondonded for specific reasons. all i said was it wasn't offered here - meaning no one here has a franchise and therefore the format isn't played. if someone close to me was running a napa franchise i might play it but no one does.
there is no need to go on the defensive so hardabout the handicaps either. again in my bca divisions the way the payouts are done there is no reason to lay down. it actually hurts your payout. and it will never help in winning anything. the following is a quote from your post about the napa system - You mark win/loses and bonus achievements in either Break & Runs, 8,9,10 on the break, Rackless Match. It is that simple.
 if those are the things you are marking it is very easy to manipulate. don't win, don't break and run, don't have rackelss nights. however, i don't know the rest of the structure of napa leagues so dumping may not be befeficial in overall scheme of things. i am just saying by what you layed out in that one sentence it seams easy to cheat. the cheating just may not help in the long run when it comes to advancing in the leagues tournament structures.
in closing i'd like to say again, i never bashed your league. i never bashed any league, simply pointed out the pitfalls of the systems i have played in. as i said to the op, i don't have enough time in upa to say anything other than i now play in the upa. i don't have have anything to say about napa other than to respond to what you have said. i am sure it's a fun format. even with all of the nonsense that goes on in apa i still have fun, because it's pool and i like to play. i'll say the same to you as i did to the op, i simply thank you for running any league format as it gives more people a chance to play more pool.
 
I don't know much about the UPA, but I do know about NAPA. I think NAPA is the way to go for amateur pool. No national tournament for UPA would be a show stopper for many people joining. You can get a great value buying a NAPA franchise.

zpele said:
Alright so as previously stated- I am looking to become a League Operator in my area. There is currently a vacuum here and players have no other options outside of the APA.

Does anyone have any opinions on the UPA versus the NAPA leagues?

They are both attractive for different reasons which I'll list below:

NAPA license costs less than the UPA and the player base is about as large.

NAPA has a national tournament every year.

UPA is based off of pro experience and has close ties to the pros.

UPA seems to have more support for the league operators as far as training goes.



One of the main things that is holding me back from the UPA is a lack of national tournament and the cost associated with buying a license.


Thanks for any input you guys can give me.
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Dear hockey scratch,

You sound like an ad for napa.
Please get your facts straight.

The BCAPL system is very friendly to the players. All leagues can be run any way the local operator desires. If you had an issue with the local program, that is fine. But the national program does not even have a handicap system.

You guys need to gets your facts STRAIGHT.
You also need to sign your real name.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL


hockeyscratch said:
Here' my two cents after playing in many leagues over the last 20 years.

BCA system is not player friendly and too much work for the League Operator. However, their game play rules are great. Handicapping system is much like APA's and it not accurate at all. Sandbagger friendly. Player support is pitiful. You don't get any.

*
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