I got the Platinum info from one of the companies I rep--Plastic Industries in Athens Tenn.--I rep the products, I don't manufacture--just going on what I was taught from the guys that do--
need advice for inventing billiards products
- Thread starter ndakotan
- Start date
It's much cheaper to file for a mechanical device than a computer chip. Filing fees are no where near $5K, especially for a small entity (solo inventor). I think the fees are like $100 for a provisional and $600 for non-provisional (just fees to the PTO, not any attorney/search/drawing fees).
Even if there are attorney fees, they don't need to push you into the 30K range for a mechanical device by any stretch. I think 30K might be true for CPU related patents, but not a pool/billiards device.
-td
You can apply for a patent yourself for the filling fee plus your own time to create the application. My friend patented a laser cue by himself and that led to a business doing millions a year, not all laser cue sales but the laser cue was the impetus. If you are going to use a 3d printer then you will already have the 3d drawings you will need for the application. This is a great place to start, www.uspto.gov http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee100512.htm
The more important question to ask yourself is would a patent be worth it. Because having a patent is fine except that you have to defend it when someone infringes. And that costs money, sometimes a lot of it. I know because I spent more than 40k defending a trademark.
For gadgety stuff you are looking at probably a year headstart before someone knocks it off if it turns out to be both useful and popular. When that happens you should be prepared to go against anyone who brings in knockoffs including your own customers. Not always a nice thing to face.
As for buying the idea, well that's unlikely as well but possible. I have been involved where we have paid someone for their idea and produced the item. I have been involved where we bought the remaining inventory of a finished product and assumed production of that product elsewhere. We have also done a few OEM production/distribution deals where we produce and sell and pay a percentage. Lots of ways to structure it.
But please don't use the SGMA's 30 million players as your intitial motivator. The thinking that if I just get 1% of 1% of 1% of them and I will be rich rich rich has led to a lot of money being wasted on making pool gadgets that found the actual market to be WAY smaller.
Good luck with it though, I am jealous that you are getting a 3d printer, I haven't pulled the trigger yet as I haven't found a thing in the shop we could use it for on a regular basis. But I have been drooling over them for years and will probably break down and build a RepRap just because.
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3 dprinters
No problem so educate me
I understand 3d printer is laying down different material and resins.
After a little research I had no idea that 3d printing has evolved to where it is now. The thought of designing things that is already assembled from the printer is beyond my understanding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4DL2njmVE
The only 3d printer I have been around doesnt look like anything is on the web. He had spools of what looked like round soft silicone or rubber hanging from the ceiling.
all of my software is mach3, cambam , vetrix. I havent worked with autocad or cadcam.
MMike
No problem so educate me
I understand 3d printer is laying down different material and resins.
After a little research I had no idea that 3d printing has evolved to where it is now. The thought of designing things that is already assembled from the printer is beyond my understanding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4DL2njmVE
The only 3d printer I have been around doesnt look like anything is on the web. He had spools of what looked like round soft silicone or rubber hanging from the ceiling.
all of my software is mach3, cambam , vetrix. I havent worked with autocad or cadcam.
MMike
Well the field of 3d printing is rapidly evolving in the hobby space. I know when I lost a complicated part from my headphones I took a cue from the 3d printing field and drew out the part on CorelDraw and then laser cut it in layers of plastic which I then glued together and made into a workable replacement.
With 3d printing in the hobby space you are essentially laying down layers of plastic slice by slice until the piece is built up. The resulting piece can be an actual working part depending on what material you used and how good your design is.
There is a huge community that is sharing designs and helping each other to build a vase library of useful designs as well as useful information on best practices.
http://www.thingiverse.com/
Magnetic chalk holder
http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page
This is a RepRap which is baiscally a do-it-yourself type of 3d printer. It has the main feature that once one is built it can then make almost all the parts needed to make another one.
Makerbot builds commercial 3d printers that are ready to go, www.makerbot.com
I don't know that I would call these production machines but there are certainly people out there now using them to make things in a production manner for sale. With the RepRap I think you could conceivably build it as large as you wanted to or simply build as many as you need. I haven't researched it enough to know if anyone has created a little factory with their printers busy churning out gadgets.
With 3d printing in the hobby space you are essentially laying down layers of plastic slice by slice until the piece is built up. The resulting piece can be an actual working part depending on what material you used and how good your design is.
There is a huge community that is sharing designs and helping each other to build a vase library of useful designs as well as useful information on best practices.
http://www.thingiverse.com/
Magnetic chalk holder
http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page
This is a RepRap which is baiscally a do-it-yourself type of 3d printer. It has the main feature that once one is built it can then make almost all the parts needed to make another one.
Makerbot builds commercial 3d printers that are ready to go, www.makerbot.com
I don't know that I would call these production machines but there are certainly people out there now using them to make things in a production manner for sale. With the RepRap I think you could conceivably build it as large as you wanted to or simply build as many as you need. I haven't researched it enough to know if anyone has created a little factory with their printers busy churning out gadgets.
I'm guessing 3d printers are not difficult with my cad background, everything appears to be heading towards user friendly devices. And they are likely the road to the future. I think it would help me as a builder and a pool player, a two-fer. A 1 KG spool costs $40, can't be too bad. Not close to production costs, but for 1-off's like building models and product testers it is probably a great tool Will show you what I can build when I figure out how to put the darn printer together.
I work with all kinds of rapid prototype (RP) technologies in my work (mechanical engineering). I don't know anything about the "hobby space" of RP, but do know in the commercial space that I deal with the RP printers are generally in the range of 100k to 500k. Again, I have no idea what the hobby space is like, but I'd imagine a part off a machine a hobbyist can afford would be substantially worst than a commercial machine.
Here is what to do for your prototype needs:
Go to solidconcepts.com. They are a commercial RP house in CA. They have dozens of the commercial RP machines.
There is an ftp section on the site to send for a quote. You will send them either an iges or stp format 3d part from your CAD program.
The cost depends on the volume (size) of your parts, and the RP technology you choose. Different RP materials produce different strengths, accuracies, details, etc.
For reference, something the size of a bridge head would be about $100 to $200.
This sure beats buying a hobbiest printer, IMO.
As far as patents, my personal engineering opinion of them is they are mostly worthless, and the only people who make out are the lawyers, in the vast majority of cases.
Here is what to do for your prototype needs:
Go to solidconcepts.com. They are a commercial RP house in CA. They have dozens of the commercial RP machines.
There is an ftp section on the site to send for a quote. You will send them either an iges or stp format 3d part from your CAD program.
The cost depends on the volume (size) of your parts, and the RP technology you choose. Different RP materials produce different strengths, accuracies, details, etc.
For reference, something the size of a bridge head would be about $100 to $200.
This sure beats buying a hobbiest printer, IMO.
As far as patents, my personal engineering opinion of them is they are mostly worthless, and the only people who make out are the lawyers, in the vast majority of cases.
The thing about buying prototypes is that if you are spending $100-$200 a pop then you can easily end up spending what you would spend on a desktop 3d printer. And you have to wait for each version for days deal with the postage and can't tweak on the fly.
With a desktop printer you can literally make your own bridge heads in as many configurations as you want as many times as you want without waiting for or dealing with anyone else.
I own a laser engraver/cutter, for me this thing has paid for itself a dozen times over just with the ability to make parts and jigs not to mention the pattern making and decoration.
I make stamps on the laser engraver until I am sure that they are what I want then I send them off to be made in metal. Same thing with rubber parts, I mock them up with the laser cutter using layers of wood or eva foam rubber until I am sure of the right size and shape and then when it's done I give that to the mold maker.
These days I am constantly amazed at what is available to any person for making things. I have seen someone convert their 3d printer into being both a 3d printer AND a laser cutter. The plans are online. Any grade of resin is available for those who want to do their own casting. Low cost cnc milling machines - really these days it's entirely possible to have a shop capable of making a vast array of top quality things in a garage.
About the only thing I haven't seen yet is 3d printing in metal at the individual scale but I bet someone has either done it or is working on it. I think you would be surprised at the quality and complexity of the stuff people are putting out now.
I don't think you need educating, they do use files used frequently in Cad/Cam, but just a different format that doesn't require machine (G) code. The ones we have use .STL files.
As far as printing assembled parts, just create the solid models with clearance between them. The printer see it as a file, not parts, so anything that is not solid is printed with a dissolvable filler material. So one the printing is done, soak in a solution (called something I don't recall off hand) and the filler disolves, leaving only the solid, and even interlocking and moveable parts if designed as such.
A very useful way of prototyping and reverse engineering.
cnc
I assemble my cnc and made my own control panel . That was the easy part the cad cam software and basic computer skills is one of my major struggles. I am on the blue coller side
The research I just did on 3d printers is very impressive.
but I would like to see how they design assembled componets on the 3D printer software.
best of luck in your venture I am not sure that billiard products is your best market.
MMike
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I assemble my cnc and made my own control panel . That was the easy part the cad cam software and basic computer skills is one of my major struggles. I am on the blue coller side
The research I just did on 3d printers is very impressive.
but I would like to see how they design assembled componets on the 3D printer software.
best of luck in your venture I am not sure that billiard products is your best market.
MMike
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I watch a video on you Tube were they made a bicycle with a 3 d printer,
they also made the wheel bearings. when they took the bearing out of the printer it looked like it was covered in sand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxjLpu2BvY
I also read a little on the powdered material used .
thank you for explaining
MMike
My brother recently patented something about a year or so ago now and if I remember right it was around twenty g's after lawyer fees and everything. But I do also remember him doing a lot of research to make sure he wasn't copyrighting something somebody already had a patent for. All I can say is it is a lot of work.Also i am pretty sure that even a small mold will run you around sixty g's or so. Good luck...
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From what I understand 3d printing or I suppose the correct term is additive manufacturing is already used in some production settings. I have seen videos where they use resin powder (I think) and also if I remember correctly even molten metal. I believe that I read that Boeing 3d prints some parts for their aircraft.
Since necessity is the mother of invention. I'd suggest you talk to alot of players and get an idea of what they want, need, or think would be cool. Then try to find those things. If then they don't exist or aren't configured the way that suits most people, you should either invent or reinvent. Most things made just need tweaking, so your best bet is to just talk to folks.
Big Undertaking
3D printing is a tool to make a quick prototype but it has it's limitations. The most important thing to work on when designing an injection molded part is the actual geometry of the parts. You can 3d print almost anything but it doesn't mean that it is practical to mold or machine.
It's important to understand the limitations of molding to keep the cost of the mold down and the quality of the molded part consistent. You need to have similar wall thicknesses and features that will shrink at the same rate when cooling.
I run a cnc machine shop/mechanical design service and make prototypes all the time. My advice for someone thinking to design a new product is to lean on someone with the skills and experience to bring a concept to a completed design. The documentation you submit to your vendors is very important also. If you don't tolerance your drawings you might get crap and not have any way to reject the parts. Making a complete drawing package with correct tolerances is the only way to protect yourself. If you ask for tolerances that are too tight this will also be a problem as the cost will go way up.
More often than not when someone has an idea for their own product and talks with me about it they think it is simple but when I get into the details there are some major issues to work through.
It's very frustrating making something that has unneeded complicated features or looks cool but is completely impractical from a manufacturing standpoint. Anything can be made but at what cost. Time spent at the cad station saves money later.
If you don't have machining/mechanical design experience you will not understand what makes things difficult/expensive to make. Be prepared to hire someone to finish your design.
A mold will run in the 20,000 range in the us market. (roughly) It really depends how complicated it is.
A patent is at least 10,000 just to file. Hiring a patent attorney will help greatly as it is a lot to learn to do it on your own.
There are sites out there that focus on inventing and they might be a good resource if you don't already have the connections to help.
This is an example that I found on a 1 minute google search. (I have no idea if this is a good link)
http://www.inventioncity.com/manufacturing.html
Dudley
3D printing is a tool to make a quick prototype but it has it's limitations. The most important thing to work on when designing an injection molded part is the actual geometry of the parts. You can 3d print almost anything but it doesn't mean that it is practical to mold or machine.
It's important to understand the limitations of molding to keep the cost of the mold down and the quality of the molded part consistent. You need to have similar wall thicknesses and features that will shrink at the same rate when cooling.
I run a cnc machine shop/mechanical design service and make prototypes all the time. My advice for someone thinking to design a new product is to lean on someone with the skills and experience to bring a concept to a completed design. The documentation you submit to your vendors is very important also. If you don't tolerance your drawings you might get crap and not have any way to reject the parts. Making a complete drawing package with correct tolerances is the only way to protect yourself. If you ask for tolerances that are too tight this will also be a problem as the cost will go way up.
More often than not when someone has an idea for their own product and talks with me about it they think it is simple but when I get into the details there are some major issues to work through.
It's very frustrating making something that has unneeded complicated features or looks cool but is completely impractical from a manufacturing standpoint. Anything can be made but at what cost. Time spent at the cad station saves money later.
If you don't have machining/mechanical design experience you will not understand what makes things difficult/expensive to make. Be prepared to hire someone to finish your design.
A mold will run in the 20,000 range in the us market. (roughly) It really depends how complicated it is.
A patent is at least 10,000 just to file. Hiring a patent attorney will help greatly as it is a lot to learn to do it on your own.
There are sites out there that focus on inventing and they might be a good resource if you don't already have the connections to help.
This is an example that I found on a 1 minute google search. (I have no idea if this is a good link)
http://www.inventioncity.com/manufacturing.html
Dudley
I actually do this for a living. From conceptualization to monetization, I invent, refine and patent different products.
3D printing is not user friendly enough to plug and play. I would highly suggest outsourcing your prototyping needs. A place I use frequently is QuickParts. If you decide to purchase a hobby/prosumer 3D printer, keep in mind you will spend a lot of time tweaking the settings. There is quite a bit of a learning curve involved. I have an Ultimaker and love it, but also hate it some days too. Also you have to consider the limitations of the hobby style printers, which have difficulties with retractions and bridging. Here's some videos showing what I'm talking about: Bridging Retractions
If you outsource the prototyping then you'll probably end up using an SLA process which doesn't have any of those downsides. You can literally just print whatever you can make.
On the patent side of things you have to be really honest with yourself and estimate the worth of your invention. Unless you have the equivalent of the first low deflection shaft, then there's no way you can justify hiring patent lawyer. Costs typically range from $25K for just a US patent, if you want to file in multiple countries under the PCT then the prices go up from there. You can file yourself, (and I have done this for smaller projects,) which costs around $1500 in fees in the US.
That's completely false. Lots of 3D printers use gcode and ink. Virtually all RepRap and hobby 3D printers use gcode, and the Objet polyjet printers use ink.
That's quite amazing since G Code is used to turn on and off machine tool functions and to drive servo's, none of which are needed to print a 3 dimensional digital file, but if the hobbyists find it usefull, then more power to them. We've been doing it in Aerospace for years without G Code.
robotics
Hey John
how is your wife doing,
I have a cnc , and I am just learning, Robotics is a different world, a different way of thinking and communicating.
I enjoy working with my cnc . But I struggle with cad cam
CAD computer aided design<
CAM computer aided machining .
I have been playing with http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/pvc_features.htm
just think if you could have customers e mail you pictures and you could burn the image on to leather with a laser cnc .
Anyway I just do it for fun if I did it for a living I think i would fail.:grin:
MMike
Hey John
how is your wife doing,
I have a cnc , and I am just learning, Robotics is a different world, a different way of thinking and communicating.
I enjoy working with my cnc . But I struggle with cad cam
CAD computer aided design<
CAM computer aided machining .
I have been playing with http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/pvc_features.htm
just think if you could have customers e mail you pictures and you could burn the image on to leather with a laser cnc .
Anyway I just do it for fun if I did it for a living I think i would fail.:grin:
MMike
robotics
[QUOTE
oops
MMike
[QUOTE
oops
MMike