Need Advice on Cue Purchase and Return situation

[KenneyTran]

"I did told him that I will give him a full refund if any issues." I think this is clear, but if not, who should bear the burden of ambiguity? This matter has been clearly settled at law for a long, long time.

Any issues as in defected issues not how he feel about the item. Even a brand new cue from Tascarella or SW or Manzino or even GinaCue can’t promise that the cue will fit how you feel when you play it. We can alway promised if any issues as in working or defective flaw. There has never been a promised of full refund on how I expect you to like or love when you play with it. It’s like me promised you to win a championship with the cue. That’s insanely expectation isn’t it?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

It’s a tough roll when as a seller you send something that both parties agree is as described and in this case is in excellent or perfect condition, but the buyer has a change of mind or simply isn’t enamored with this particular cue. I’ve been on both sides of the equation. Kenney seems to have done what he always does, which is to describe things to a T and then follow through with timely shipping and great communication, often including a video chat so you can see what you’re getting and see the human being on the other side of the deal, which offers a lot of comfort.

So what’s the right thing to do? I think if you have a standard policy that no matter what, the buyer’s satisfaction is what matters most, then you have to suck it up and reverse the deal. With that said, I am a proponent that if somebody sells me something and it matches perfectly with their description but I simply just don’t like it, I take it upon myself to either give the cue a little more time or sell it, which works out to be not too big of an imposition.

You can’t require unhappy buyers to keep a cue they don’t like or to sell it on their own, but generally, if you’re buying a good quality cue at the right price it shouldn’t end up costing you anything but a little time if you were to resell it yourself.

I know Kenney is in Canada and as such he has to deal with the extra steps that come with international shipping. The extra costs and effort required should always be a consideration by both parties.

I applaud Kenney for stepping up and trying to make this situation right. Obviously, cue sales are not his main source of income, it’s prob more of a hobby. So, yes it looks like it’s taking him a bit of time to replenish his wallet to get the rest of the refund done, and I think at the end of the day if he told the OP that if he didn’t like the cue, he could get a refund then imo Kenney is doing ther right thing by making him whole. I’m assuming that the cue has already been returned and remains in great shape.

One final thing worth mentioning is that the buyer was never in any real danger of Kenny abandoning him. Kenney’s reputation here and on many Facebook groups is impeccable.

This is one of those unfortunate cases where a seller did everything right, but he’s going to end up losing some money and time. Hopefully, good karma will swing back by and smile upon you for doing good.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

This is why it is so important to be clear in what one writes/says. Preservation of reputations and relationships many times depends upon it. Any means any. If not, what are the limits on "any"? People criticize me for attempting precision, but this is exactly why we need it.

 

[j2pac]

It’s a tough roll when as a seller you send something that both parties agree is as described and in this case is in excellent or perfect condition, but the buyer has a change of mind or simply isn’t enamored with this particular cue. I’ve been on both sides of the equation. Kenney seems to have done what he always does, which is to describe things to a T and then follow through with timely shipping and great communication, often including a video chat so you can see what you’re getting and see the human being on the other side of the deal, which offers a lot of comfort.

So what’s the right thing to do? I think if you have a standard policy that no matter what, the buyer’s satisfaction is what matters most, then you have to suck it up and reverse the deal. With that said, I am a proponent that if somebody sells me something and it matches perfectly with their description but I simply just don’t like it, I take it upon myself to either give the cue a little more time or sell it, which works out to be not too big of an imposition.

You can’t require unhappy buyers to keep a cue they don’t like or to sell it on their own, but generally, if you’re buying a good quality cue at the right price it shouldn’t end up costing you anything but a little time if you were to resell it yourself.

I know Kenney is in Canada and as such he has to deal with the extra steps that come with international shipping. The extra costs and effort required should be a consideration.

I applaud Kenney for stepping up and trying to make this situation right and obviously cue sales are not his main source of income. It’s more of a hobby. So, yes it looks like it’s taking him a bit of time to reload his wallet to get the rest of this done, and I think at the end of the day if he told the OP that if he didn’t like the cue, he could get a refund then imo Kenney has to make him whole. I’m assuming that the cue has already been returned and remains in great shape.

One final thing worth mentioning is that the buyer was never in any real danger of Kenny abandoning him. Kenney’s reputation here and on many other Facebook groups is impeccable.

This is one of those unfortunate cases where a seller did everything right, but he’s going to end up losing some money and time. Hopefully good karma will swing back by and smile on you for doing good.

About as well as can be said.

 

[j2pac]

Issues is a specific term!

What was the issues?

Per buyers own words! None....

Kd

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Apparently the fact that he didn't like it became an "issue."

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Apparently the fact that he didn't like it became an "issue."

Only thing I Don't like is the buyer goes off into obscurity!


Meanwhile, the seller is left picking up the pieces....

The high dollar cue market is a small place.

Ask anyone if they would like to be treated like that and have attacks to their name and reputation ...

Kd




Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[Biloxi Boy]

I would suggest a one page, SIMPLE, contract, with a Merger Clause, and some fill in blanks for additional conditions.

One of you smart cats can do this in an afternoon (get online or go to library) and post it for everyone's review/comments and eventual use. Cue makers need one, too.

PLAIN ENGLISH. NO LEGALESE.

 

[KenneyTran]

Apparently the fact that he didn't like it became an "issue."

Apparently I missed that memo, I guess from now on, I’ll say any defect issues or wrongly describing on the cue will be refund not how buyer feel, his wife, grandma, grandpa, neighbor, the dog, or some drunk bozo sat across the pool hall feel about the cue. Seriously, I’m fine return the moneys, but the guy basically just wanted try out the cue n see how it hits. If that’s the case, I offered him on a trade with cues I have, but he declined. I offered him many other options but he didn’t want it. I got mad n not happy because he tried to threaten me n called me names. Those who knows me, I’m not taking them threats lightly.

 

[j2pac]

Only thing I Don't like is the buyer goes off into obscurity!


Meanwhile, the seller is left picking up the pieces....

The high dollar cue market is a small place.

Ask anyone if they would like to be treated like that and have attacks to their name and reputation ...

Kd




Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

I'm not sure if the buyer necessarily "goes off into obscurity." Like you said, the high end cue market is a small place. Many of the high end sellers might have just crossed a buyer off of their potential customer list.
Personally, if I have bent over backwards trying to make someone whole, and they are extremely difficult, I won't do business with them a second time.
For the record, I'm not saying that is what will happen in this instance...Just food for thought.
Best
j2

 

[j2pac]

Apparently I missed that memo, I guess from now on, I’ll say any defect issues or wrongly describing on the cue will be refund not how buyer feel, his wife, grandma, grandpa, neighbor, the dog, or some drunk bozo sat across the pool hall feel about the cue. Seriously, I’m fine return the moneys, but the guy basically just wanted try out the cue n see how it hits. If that’s the case, I offered him on a trade with cues I have, but he declined. I offered him many other options but he didn’t want it. I got mad n not happy because he tried to threaten me n called me names. Those who knows me, I’m not taking them threats lightly.

 

[j2pac]

Apparently I missed that memo, I guess from now on, I’ll say any defect issues or wrongly describing on the cue will be refund not how buyer feel, his wife, grandma, grandpa, neighbor, the dog, or some drunk bozo sat across the pool hall feel about the cue. Seriously, I’m fine return the moneys, but the guy basically just wanted try out the cue n see how it hits. If that’s the case, I offered him on a trade with cues I have, but he declined. I offered him many other options but he didn’t want it. I got mad n not happy because he tried to threaten me n called me names. Those who knows me, I’m not taking them threats lightly.

Clearly defined terms are always best. They protect both parties. Clarity is always better than agreement. I think it will save you a great deal of headache going forward.
Best regards
j2

 

[KenneyTran]

Clearly defined terms are always best. They protect both parties. Clarity is always better than agreement. I think it will save you a great deal of headache going forward.
Best regards
j2

Yeah for sure.

FYI ALL, I have paid all the $$$ back to that guy clark. I’m also very glad that he posted this and giving me a bigger lesson in cue selling. Thank you to kicking_chicken and all that speak out on the issues. I also like to meet you all at SBE, as I have over 40 cues to display for your liking.

Thank you again. Life is a lesson, I’m still very young in it.

 

[Bishop]

Yeah for sure.

FYI ALL, I have paid all the $$$ back to that guy clark. I’m also very glad that he posted this and giving me a bigger lesson in cue selling. Thank you to kicking_chicken and all that speak out on the issues. I also like to meet you all at SBE, as I have over 40 cues to display for your liking.

Thank you again. Life is a lesson, I’m still very young in it.

I think you handled this well. Worst case you more than solidified your already strong reputation.

The cue world is full of shitty people for all kinds of reasons. The list of people not to do business with in this market is long and embarrassing.

You’re the opposite of that. Which is worth it’s weight in gold in this industry.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

A few things here.

1. I'm guessing that there was difficulty with any verbal communication.

2. Talking on the phone is great, you can get a feel for a person.

3. Relying on anything verbal is stupid. Follow all phone conversations with an email and require a response.

4. Always choose email for communications that need to be clear. Texts are limiting by their nature and encourage people to be too succinct.

5. When writing the email don't use text-speak. 'N' is not a valid replacement for, 'and'. U is not the same as 'you'. I would not do business for much over a couple hundred with anyone who communicates that way.

Now to the crux of what may have been said. If a person says that an item can be returned if there are 'any issues', then it is left up to the buyer to define an issue. Not liking something is an issue. Buyers remorse is an issue. Being clear in communication and documenting communication is important if the deal is important.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

You really believe that a refund for any reason exists!

It does at Costco, Amazon, LLBean, Home Depot...

If you don't mean that it can be returned without reason, it needs to be said. That is the world we live in now.

 

[garczar]

Guarantees or not i'd never spend that kind of $$ using F&F to pay for it. If something goes sideways the buyer is screwed.

 

[KenneyTran]

A few things here.

1. I'm guessing that there was difficulty with any verbal communication.

2. Talking on the phone is great, you can get a feel for a person.

3. Relying on anything verbal is stupid. Follow all phone conversations with an email and require a response.

4. Always choose email for communications that need to be clear. Texts are limiting by their nature and encourage people to be too succinct.

5. When writing the email don't use text-speak. 'N' is not a valid replacement for, 'and'. U is not the same as 'you'. I would not do business for much over a couple hundred with anyone who communicates that way.

Now to the crux of what may have been said. If a person says that an item can be returned if there are 'any issues', then it is left up to the buyer to define an issue. Not liking something is an issue. Buyers remorse is an issue. Being clear in communication and documenting communication is important if the deal is important.

Noted. Thank you for your input.
I’m still new at these selling thing.
Sadly, I’m not costco, Amazon or Home Depot, however I’ve learned my lesson.
By the way, costco or Amazon, they didn’t care about returning item because the item isn’t their to worry. Most items from costco are consigned from other seller like warehouse. Also, Amazon and costco has premium cost yearly for try out their item. If not, Amazon does charge $ for return.

Anyhow, I gave back the guy $. I actually wanted to return it as soon as I received the cue, but at that time the cue box was badly damage, therefore I had to have an expert to exam it to make sure no issues. Please look at the pictures for reference, and then he start to called me names and threatened me of bashing and stained my reputation. That’s why I waited for him to post this then I have a chance to defend myself. If I were to return the $$ right away, who knows if there were any problems to the cue and also.

Anyhow, as far as I see, this Clark guy has a buyer remorse and just wanted to try out the cue without any strings attached or obligation.
I wasted my time and moneys for this whole transaction. I don’t mind it at all, but I just didn’t like the fact that I gave a great deal n got burnt from it.

So As of date, this JEFF CLARK, He’ll be in my DND (DO NOT DEAL) LIST. I’ve done and dealt many cues before, and I’ve also tried my best to make people happy. I do not think it’s fair for me, that he wanted to buy my 5000$ cues, then return it after few days of tried it and the reason because he didn’t “feel” it fit or how it feel light. All description n videos n pictures were sent. My cue was perfect condition.

Put yourself in my shoe, if this happens to you, what would you do? How would ya feel when you have done nothing wrong, the item you sold has no flaw nor issues but the only complaint is how he not feel right. Honestly, how many cues have you tried?
How many cue makers will promised after you bought the cue will “feel” right.
To protect my reputation and name, I’m gladly to return the moneys to him. I hope karma in life has a way to payback things that happened.
If you guys want to see me, Come to SBE, I will be at Bill Grassley helping him with his booth 110-110. I’ll have coffee ready.

 

[GoldCrown]

Yeah for sure.

FYI ALL, I have paid all the $$$ back to that guy clark. I’m also very glad that he posted this and giving me a bigger lesson in cue selling. Thank you to kicking_chicken and all that speak out on the issues. I also like to meet you all at SBE, as I have over 40 cues to display for your liking.

Thank you again. Life is a lesson, I’m still very young in it.

You are a gentleman…. and will learn from this. The loose end was he thought he could try it with no obligation to keep it.

 

[billiards_watch]

It's a nice cue and no cue fits the shooter right off the bat. This has to be considered no matter the maker. Therefore, I would have learned how to shoot with it. The shooter gets use to the equipment and the equipment doesn't tailor around the shooter. It is never a guarantee even if you order a cue to your specs.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding on both parts and its good to hear they are working it out.

 

[7stud]

The buyer played with it at a weekend tournament and then on the following Monday let me know that he did not like the way it played.

Correct response to buyer: F**k off!

I took it back and issued a complete refund although the new Barnhart was now used. A lot of guys are like me,

You've got to be kidding?! I'm not sure you should be posting this story.

I think you handled this well. Worst case you more than solidified your already strong reputation.

I don't know Kenny's reputation, but he obviously felt he was misunderstood about his guarantee, yet he let the other side have their way. If I was the buyer, and I heard Kenny say that I could return the cue if I didn't like it, I would make Kenny repeat that a second time, then I would make Kenny put that in writing because that is obviously not how the cue market works. So, yeah, I have to agree: Kenny's reputation is stronger after this deal.