Need Answers to Monk's The Lesson

CurvedCue

CurvedCue

Registered
The Lesson is full of great drills. But has few explanations on how to actually get the desired position. This one in particular confounds me to no end (I have numbered the balls for easy explaining):

View attachment 301674

The goal is to make each ball (in no particular order) into the corner pocket and bring the CB into the circled area each time.

What would you guys do?

Monk says "many a career has ended with this exercise." ;)
 
Try to maintain that 30 degree angle for each shot.

I would use outside and draw on each shot, always playing for the center of the table.

CurvedCue said:
The Lesson is full of great drills. But has few explanations on how to actually get the desired position. This one in particular confounds me to no end (I have numbered the balls for easy explaining):

View attachment 301674

The goal is to make each ball (in no particular order) into the corner pocket and bring the CB into the circled area each time.

What would you guys do?

Monk says "many a career has ended with this exercise." ;)
Click to expand...
 
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I would use a little draw. The CB will bounce from the nearest long rail a little bit back, then from the opposite long rail and then will go to the center. I remember when I did a similar drill and tried to bounce the CB only one time my CB was passing the center of the table often but when I tried to bounce it from an extra rail I had a more consistent result. Maybe there is a better way though.
 
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I don't understand the drill. Are you supposed to start where the drawing of the cb is in the diagram? Then what happens? Do you continue to shoot from the middle of the table? What corner pocket? The same one for all 4 balls or 4 different corner pockets?
 
FranCrimi said:
I don't understand the drill. Are you supposed to start where the drawing of the cb is in the diagram? Then what happens? Do you continue to shoot from the middle of the table? What corner pocket? The same one for all 4 balls or 4 different corner pockets?
Click to expand...

Fran,

Well, the Monk is not very explicit. But yes, I assume you start where the CB is in the drawing, then continue to shoot from the middle of the table and into 4 different corner pockets.
 
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rubell said:
I would use a little draw. The CB will bounce from the nearest long rail a little bit back, then from the opposite long rail and then will go to the center. I remember when I did a similar drill and tried to bounce the CB only one time my CB was passing the center of the table often but when I tried to bounce it from an extra rail I had a more consistent result. Maybe there is a better way though.
Click to expand...


Nick, which ball would you shoot first to start this off? :confused:
 
OK, so this is where it doesn't make sense to me. If he wants the player to shoot three shots from the middle of the table, why not all four? Why would he designate the starting point someplace other than the middle? Maybe he's giving you a break for the first shot.

Let's say that's his intent for whatever reason. You can shoot either number 1 or number two from the designated cb spot. With shot number 1, you will have to spin the cb with low outside (right), using a fairly light stroke (but not too light to where the backspin doesn't take), timing the backspin so that there is only a little left on the cb by the time it reaches the ob. This is a spin shot.

To shoot number 2 from the starting point, you will have to use more force, again with the combination of low and outside (left), but I would say, not as much backspin as with the other shot or the cb will not hit the rail soon enough and wind up drawing back off the rail at a more obtuse angle. You will have to experiment to find the right combination of the two spins along with the desired amount of force.

Shooting any of those shots from the ring in the center of the table will depend on the table conditions. The faster the table plays, the harder it will be to hold the cb. This is a finesse shot --- again, low outside, but with a kill stroke to kill the speed of the cb as it comes back off the rail. That means you will have to time the point at which the backspin wears off more precisely than shot number 1, but with enough side to bring it back towards the middle. I have found that a shorter bridge length helps here. If you over-stroke the shot, you could scratch cross-side. (On extremely fast tables, you may have to allow the cb to run back and forth across, which changes the shot.)

These shots are among my favorite shots to shoot and are a must to know, especially if you play 9 or 10 Ball, where they seem to surface fairly often. However, they are pretty advanced and will take time to learn to master.
 
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FranCrimi said:
You can shoot either number 1 or number two from the designated cb spot. With shot number 1, you will have to spin the cb with low outside (right), using a fairly light stroke (but not too light to where the backspin doesn't take), timing the backspin so that there is only a little left on the cb by the time it reaches the ob. This is a spin shot.

To shoot number 2 from the starting point, you will have to use more force, again with the combination of low and outside (left)
Click to expand...

Fran, for shot #1 is low right English considered "outside" because it's not "running English," i.e., moving in the natural direction of the CB?

What about Nick's idea to go off two rails using only draw?
 
CurvedCue...The shots are obviously not to scale, so we really don't know how far off the rail the OB is...which makes a lot of difference on how much speed and spin you need to easily move the CB back to the center of the table, and whether one rail or two is preferable. Like Fran said, cloth and table conditions may dictate shot variables, as well. For me, shot 2 would be first, simply because it's already a 30 degree shot...which I would try to duplicate on the other three...just like Tony suggested. Low outside spin would be the preferred aimpoint on the CB for all four shots. While I might cross the middle of the table, I wouldn't want to purposely leave the CB in that circle, as it makes the cut angle on the other three shots too steep...making the shot harder, and CB control more difficult. KISS! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

CurvedCue said:
The Lesson is full of great drills. But has few explanations on how to actually get the desired position. This one in particular confounds me to no end (I have numbered the balls for easy explaining):

View attachment 301674

The goal is to make each ball (in no particular order) into the corner pocket and bring the CB into the circled area each time.

What would you guys do?

Monk says "many a career has ended with this exercise." ;)
Click to expand...
 
CurvedCue said:
Fran, for shot #1 is low right English considered "outside" because it's not "running English," i.e., moving in the natural direction of the CB?

What about Nick's idea to go off two rails using only draw?
Click to expand...

'Outside' and 'inside' are terms relative to the cut angle of the shot. Inside English can also be running English, depending on the particular shot and how you want the cb to travel.

I think Nick's idea could work, but before committing to that I would want to stand over the actual shot and assess it. There are subtleties of shot #1 that would have to be factored into the decision, like ball pocketing speed and the angle of rebound off the rail, depending on how far from the rail the ob actually is.
 
I've seen this drill from him, and I agree that (supposedly on purpose) there are few instructions on how to complete the drill, that exercise is left to the player.

The goal is to start as diagrammed - Fran, I agree it's odd it doesn't start from the center, but oh well - and shoot all 4 balls in. Ideally you are practicing your low outside 1 rail shots back to center-ish, or 2 rails back to the center, as needed based on your finish position on each shot.

In theory, you would learn to really hone the proper stroke needed for both shots to get back near the center of the table, and from there could work on the same with the balls further up or down the rail.


I have his latest e-book, which is a collection of a few other things he did. I bought it because I was looking for fresh new practice drills. Some of it is a waste, but there are some good positions and drills he has that at first look easy but are tougher than they look. Overall though I found the sparse explanations and strangeness of the writing that is there to be a little disappointing.
Scott
 
FranCrimi said:
' ... I think Nick's idea could work, but before committing to that I would want to stand over the actual shot and assess it. There are subtleties of shot #1 that would have to be factored into the decision, like ball pocketing speed and the angle of rebound off the rail, depending on how far from the rail the ob actually is.
Click to expand...
In addition, it's important to know how the equipment will affect the shot. If the cloth is sticky, draw will disappear from any slow shot and you may have to change your spin. If the rails are bouncy, there may be no way to return to the circle from the circle without extra cushions, if that's what you really want to do.

I suspect that the OP needs to begin with a much simpler drill that is better defined.
 
As Fran stated, you want very little actual draw spin at the time of contact. You are coming back with the sidespin.

I just tried it on a bar table. Cannot get the cb at a slow enough speed to stop in the middle of the table. Easy to come across the center, but not stop there. (by the way, this is a good shot to know how to come across the center of the table on. It comes up fairly often in 9 ball when you have the next ball at the other end of the table.) However, using 1 1/2 tips english and a touch of draw, it is very easy to go two rails and stop in the center of the table. You are wanting to hit a little before the side pocket on the second rail.

edit: I had the ob 1/2 ball off the side rail.
 
The Monk wants you to practice till you figure it out - I've done this drill and practiced many times he calls it piling rocks
 
I like the drill as well.
There are several variations- to finally *let it be played* as "endless drills". By placing the 4 object balls in 3 different positions i let it play as a "endless follow, draw or stun drill".

Center table is players best friend-and because of that i really really like this drill. I just take another target position (same as Ekkes Schneider also uses in his *see system* booklet)- which is still challenging.
I m anyway a big friend of endless-drills- because it forced the player to keep more focus and more *ingame situations* are aware over a longer time. And they can *hunt* their scores.

I use this drill almost everytime for intermediat or better players. Showing immediatley issues on important things ^^
 
Ratta said:
I like the drill as well.
There are several variations- to finally *let it be played* as "endless drills". By placing the 4 object balls in 3 different positions i let it play as a "endless follow, draw or stun drill".

Center table is players best friend-and because of that i really really like this drill. I just take another target position (same as Ekkes Schneider also uses in his *see system* booklet)- which is still challenging.
I m anyway a big friend of endless-drills- because it forced the player to keep more focus and more *ingame situations* are aware over a longer time. And they can *hunt* their scores.

I use this drill almost everytime for intermediat or better players. Showing immediatley issues on important things ^^
Click to expand...

How far off the rail do you have the ob, and what size tables have you done it on?
 
Neil said:
How far off the rail do you have the ob, and what size tables have you done it on?
Click to expand...

exactly a half ball away from the rail.
usually i just know 9footers around me :-) but some students i teach have 8footers at home- and also there it s a really helpful drill in my opinion.

Just shoot me a message if you need sth or what ever neil :-)

lg
Ingo
 
Center Table Drill

I'm familiar with the drill.

When you have the optimal angle you can float the cue ball back to the middle of the table with a touch of low outside english with only playing 1 rail shape. When you have the steeper angle you need to use less outside english and play 2 rail shape.


Start with each shot an only use a stop shot. You will notice the cue ball comes off the rail and comes slightly back toward the center of the table. Then experiment with only a touch of draw OR outside english. Take note of how the outside english will take the cue ball back a lot more than the draw.
 
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